Infield Fly Rule Revisited

[Bunky]

I was researching the infield fly rule and found that there are differences in the rule for obr and Fed rule. Now the Fed rules don't make sense. Under obr when the umps do not call infield fly rule and the ball is dropped, then the defense can only get 1 out. Under Fed rules, If the umps do not call infield fly, then the fielder can drop the ball and get a double play, which is what the rule is supposed to prevent --isn't it? Now, knowing that the umps don't have to call it and the coaches and players must realize infield fly rule situation---Then why is is a judgement call on wether or not the fielder is making a routine play. There is no way I'm going to send my runners if it's a pop fly, even if its a flare and the defense has to make some effort to get the ball. Boom--- ball is not caught and the defense turns two. I Feel the UMPS should have to call it loud and clear or it should be a dead ball if dropped... What about it.......?????

[mick]

Originally posted by Bunky
If the umps do not call infield fly, then the fielder can drop the ball and get a double play, which is what the rule is supposed to prevent --isn't it?

Dead Ball - 5-1 : The ball becomes dead immediately when :

j. an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly, fair line drive or fair bunt in flight with at least first base occupied and with less than two outs.
mick

[Rich]

Originally posted by mick

Dead Ball - 5-1 : The ball becomes dead immediately when :

j. an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly, fair line drive or fair bunt in flight with at least first base occupied and with less than two outs.
mick

I'm sure he means "let it drop untouched." And in FED, the batter is still going to be out if the umpires agree that the ball met the requirements for an infield fly. In FED, the situation determines what happens, not the declaration.

But he's right, there could still be more than one out achieved in this situation.

--Rich

[mick]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I'm sure he means "let it drop untouched." And in FED, the batter is still going to be out if the umpires agree that the ball met the requirements for an infield fly. In FED, the situation determines what happens, not the declaration.

But he's right, there could still be more than one out achieved in this situation.

--Rich

Thanks, Rich.
*Letting drop untouched* and *Intentionally dropping* are not the same colored horses.
mick



[Edited by mick on Jul 4th, 2004 at 01:05 PM]

[umpduck11]

OBR 6.05L Approved Ruling:

In this situation,the batter is not out if the
infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the
ground,except when the Infield Fly rule applies.


So those are same-colored horses? Seems to me the
rules draw a distinction between "intentionally dropping",
and letting drop untouched......

[Bunky]

The fielder did not intentionally let the ball drop untouched. What I am reffering to is the fact that an infield fly rule is a judgement call based on how the fielder made an attempted catch. Was he in a reasonable position or was it a great play. This is in the judgement of the people involved. If we get it wrong as players and see it as a hard to field ball then we must run when we see the ball drop and not knowing that the infield fly rule is in effect. We as players and coaches should not have to make this decision as to wether the infield fly rule is in effect. The UMPS should. Thaks all for help

[mick]

Originally posted by umpduck11

OBR 6.05L Approved Ruling:

In this situation,the batter is not out if the
infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the
ground,except when the Infield Fly rule applies.


So those are same-colored horses? Seems to me the
rules draw a distinction between "intentionally dropping",
and letting drop untouched......

No! Of course not!
I coulda sworn I wrote *not*.
...But, instead I'll jst fix it.
mick

[umpduck11]

Sorry,Mick.I wasn't trying to nit-pick,
just got confused on where you stood on the
call.Can't miss that "not" now,huh??? lol....

[mick]

Originally posted by umpduck11

Sorry,Mick.I wasn't trying to nit-pick,
just got confused on where you stood on the
call.Can't miss that "not" now,huh??? lol....

umpduck11,
I don't mind being nit-picked. Makes me better.
But, I sure hate kicking 'em because I did something stoopid.
mick

[DG]

I thought I understand but now I am confused.

First, IFF should require ordinary effort by an infielder, regardless of who caught the ball, or dropped it.

Second, if an IFF is dropped or let fall to the ground, the batter is still out. It is a live ball.

Third, if a ball that is in flight but not an IFF is dropped or let fall to the ground, then batter is out and ball is dead.

All of this prevents double plays that are not earned by the defense.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by DG
I thought I understand but now I am confused.

First, IFF should require ordinary effort by an infielder, regardless of who caught the ball, or dropped it.

Second, if an IFF is dropped or let fall to the ground, the batter is still out. It is a live ball.

Third, if a ball that is in flight but not an IFF is dropped or let fall to the ground, then batter is out and ball is dead.

All of this prevents double plays that are not earned by the defense.

But, what if it's not clear that it's an IF and the umpire makes no call, then later announces that it *was* an IF ... that's the point of the original post.

You'd (or at least I'd) expect to use the "umpire shall rectify any situation where a decision was reversed" part of FED rules to correct it. But the case plays seem to imply otherwise.

[DG]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

But, what if it's not clear that it's an IF and the umpire makes no call, then later announces that it *was* an IF ... that's the point of the original post.

You'd (or at least I'd) expect to use the "umpire shall rectify any situation where a decision was reversed" part of FED rules to correct it. But the case plays seem to imply otherwise.

I would expect the offense and defense to recognize an IFF situation before it happens, and umpires to prevent unwarranted double plays regardless of whether defense dropped the ball or not. If the defense drops an IFF ball unintentionally, and it is an IFF situation then I expect an out to be called, even if it takes the umpire(s) a moment to realize that it should have been called but wasn't. I don't see how we can end up with 2 outs on an IFF situation, called or not, or an intentionally dropped ball. We should be preventing this from happening.

[Bunky]

Thanks all, and especially your last comments DG. That would solve the problem that the FED rules have with regard to the Infield fly rule. Analyze what just happened and putting the runners in the proper position. This is my first time posting, but not last. I got such great feedback about a difficult rule. I learned a lot. Once again- thanks and good luck all with rest of season.