Your exact words are quoted <i>verbatim</i> above, Windy. Just trying to help your memory out when you answer my question.

Or maybe you're trying to say that the official over ruled HIMSELF? :D

Ok, I don't know anything about basketball officiating but I just read the posts in question. Despite your lies, Windy did not say anything about one basketball referee overruling another. What he said was, two referees got together and talked and the call was changed.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Lies? Read the post above this one. Then apologize.

Ok, I don't know anything about basketball officiating..... [/B][/QUOTE]Well, that's completely obvious. It's just as obvious that your joined-at-the-hip friend, Windy,doesn't know anything about basketball officiating either. Now, why do you both insist on arguing a procedure that is spelled out very plainly in the basketball rules? You're both wrong. Deal with it.

Jurassic;

No apology!

You suffer from the same reading deficiencies as Rut. You seem to be incapable of placing things in context. Go back and read ALL of Windy's posts. In the context of ALL of his posts, I have adequately stated his position. You, on the other hand, have engaged in Rut tactics. You take quotes out of context and run off on a tangent. Rut is famous for taking snippets of information and writing a 300 word dissertation that completely misrepresents what the author wrote.

This was a classic characteristic of the man from down under who diddles with sheep. His posts resembled Rut's in that they cut a post into five or ten pieces and went off on five or ten tangents of misrepresentation. The difference however, was that the man from down under had an excellent command of the English language.

Peter

With all due respect, Peter, that is one humongous load of crap. I cited the exact language used by your buddy. I cited the NFHS and NCAA rules that were pertinent to that language. He was wrong. You both are completely out of your area of expertise when it comes to basketball rules. That's painfully obvious. However, the both of you continue to argue something that you know nothing about, and isn't that big of a deal in the first place. I wouldn't dream of commenting on baseball rules, mechanics, procedures, etc. That's because I don't know them. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to stop you two.

And btw, I'll tell you the same thing that I told Windy. Resumes don't mean squat when you're wrong. And trying to bolster your own argument or opinion by demeaning the person that you're arguing with- whether it's me, Rut or some unknown Aussie that you got a problem with- doesn't give you very much credibility either.

I did not mention resumes, you did. Rut mentioned them too, He is always talking about all of the positions that he holds.

All Windy pointed out was that a call got changed in a real game at a high level. When you read all of the BS, fire and smoke, that's all he said. Somehow a call got changed. We don't need to be basketball officials to understand that a call got changed after two officials confered.

Whether it was illegal or legal, we don't know, but it got changed. To the laymen, it looks like one official overruled another. In baseball and I suspect basketball, perception is reality.

And by the way, when it comes to rules, baseball is the same as basketball. One umpire cannot overrule the other. But to the fans in the stands, we see it happen more and more. How can that be occurring when it is against the rules. Windy is pointing out hypocisy. The rules say one thing, but another thing occurs.

And finally, your cut and paste tactics are unethical and misleading. I call people liars who regularly engage in misleading activities. It was a classic presentation technique of the man from down under and I included the bit about sheep because I knew that it infuriated him. I was humoring the objects of his many distortions who might be reading this. I really have no idea what he did in the privacy of his own barn on a sheep station.

I am headed home for the evening and I don't post at night or on weekends so you will have the last word. This is the latest that I have stayed at work in months.

Peter

Whether it was illegal or legal, we don't know, but it got changed. To the laymen, it looks like one official overruled another.

And by the way, when it comes to rules, baseball is the same as basketball. One umpire cannot overrule the other. thing occurs.

And finally, your cut and paste tactics are unethical and misleading. I call people liars who regularly engage in misleading activities.

[/B][/QUOTE]Well, Peter, maybe you can please explain to me how my cut-and paste tactics can be unethical and misleading if I am directly quoting someone else's words completely verbatim, and not taking them out of context. That confuses the hell outa me, to be quite honest.I didn't make the statements; I just commented on them. And I'm not sure how my quoting someone else to the letter could end up making me a "liar" somehow. Could it possibly be that I'm a "liar" because I happened to disagree with you and Windy? Btw, I've already given you my opinion of the name-calling tactics that you both use, so there's no need to repeat them.

Just a coupla points on your musings above, while trying to keep away from flames:
1) You certainly got the "layman" part correct. Layman shouldn't insist that they are right and someone else is wrong when they don't know squat about the rules that they are commenting on. That's what fans do. If a supposedly highly-trained official in another sport wants to do that, hey, he should expect to be corrected when he is wrong. That's why I lurk over here, but never try to comment on the different baseball rulesets. To do so would just highlight my own ignorance of those rules.
2) Your second point on overruling was the exact same point that I was trying to make to DG- way back when. I was just pointing out that basketball officials cannot overrule one another, contrary to what DG was intimating. Well, that's when ol' Windy decided to straighten me out. Unfortunately, Windy did not and does not have a rules basis available that will contradict anything that I have said to date.

Have a good evening.

JR is saying that one official isn't allowed to overrule another -- it's against the rules of basketball. OK, I can accept that. You could fit my knowledge of basketball rules on a very small card.

Windy is saying that in an NCAA game, one ref overturned the ruling of another. I have no reason to doubt that fact either.

Even considering that it isn't allowed, it may have happened. California law (the rules) says I can't drive faster than 65 mph on the freeway, but I still do it.

People sometimes make mistakes and do things they aren't supposed to do. They don't always get caught by anyone who can provide correction or punishment. Is it inconceivable that this may have happened in this occurance?

So why has this turned into a brawl? It's tiresome. It distracts from the purpose of this board. There's nothing of value being said here.

Since the topic has severely deviated from the original question, perhaps a moderator could close this thread off?

And since some here seem to want to argue ad naseum, perhaps a moderator could create a new forum to give people a place for name-calling and pointless bickering?

interesting...
 

I have watched this thread develop and this is what I have deducted...

1) In basketball (of which I know SQUAT) a referee CAN NEVER overrule another referee.
2) In baseball an umpire can never overrule another umpire.
3) In both sports, the big dog will apply pressure to a mistaken official in order to get the call correct.
4) 4 officials, who claim to have more experience than as sports officials than I can fathom, are calling names and arguing like a bunch of 14 year old girls.

You guys all are talking in circles and saying the same thing.

I like needling people just as much as the next guy, but geez isn't this horse about turned into a bloody hole 15 feet deep?

Actually Peter, there are only a very small percentage of people the resume of Windy in our area. There are only a small percentage that would be an UMPS member. Believe it or not, there are people that have ideas to exactly who he is. I would not know either way, because I do not care about baseball year round. I only know two umpires that have done D1 and that work some Minor League ball. After awhile, someone is going to figure them out. Or maybe he is just using the resume to hide behind his words. Who knows and who cares? My schedule will be the same no matter who he thinks he is.

Peace

SSSSHHHH...that's the sound of my toilet I just flushed. The same should be done here.

100 posts, that has to be a record, and far surpasses the "draw a line in the sand" discussion, which was equally inane.

[Edited by DG on Jul 1st, 2004 at 12:38 AM]

Nope. Not a record and be careful about proclaiming it as one or He-Whose-Name-Is-Not-Spoken will come out of his slumber.

Volde-porter?

Agree. Guilty. Goodbye.

If you would learn to use the quote button, you would not have that problem.
 

Do I not know the meaning, because I have never worked a Minor League Baseball game?

I have been officiating for a long time. I do not just work in one time of the year and have to sit and think about what to do the rest of the time. I officiate literally year round. And the other officials that do the same, share similar philsophies. We all make mistakes, but we are a team first. Our job is not to step on each other's toes because I am watching their responsibilities. There is a constant battle in all sports I work, "get it right," or "trust your partner." Like I have said, I am straight down the middle. You have to get it right, but you cannot constantly save your partners from mistakes. Because if you do on one play, you are going to be expected by the coaches to do it when you are not even paying attention the next time. From that perspective, it is a slippery slope. But that does not mean the game is going to hell either. Mistakes are what make us better. I know when I have made mistakes, I get them right the next time. That is called officiating.

The last time I checked, I did not develop that philosohy reading discussion boards and scouring over the internet. And I will not change my mind because someone claims to work a certain kind of ball and claims to live in my area. I guess that is life.

Peace