Pulled Foot - A first

[WindyCityBlue]

The play reference that you gave is not applicable at all. The official was NOT over ruled on that play.He changed his own call, but he was NOT over ruled.

Don't try to use your own personal "semantics" to tell me that I am wrong. I ain't. You are.

Nice use of our native tongue...incomplete sentences, incorrect grammar and no logic. Did you see the play? I did...he whistled it out, pointed the direction of award and the crowd went nuts. The closest opposing player jumped up and down at the call. One of the referees ran over, they conferred for about ten seconds and the referee who came in with the help, SIGNALLED THE OTHER WAY! The ref who made the initial call moved up the side and the "helping" ref worked the inbounds. These were Division 1 referees and from what I understand, it's pretty tough to get the call for those games, so they must be pretty good. I guess they should have consulted with you and Rut before they made the call.

Btw, again please note that I refrained from name calling. Unlike your little comment in red above.
JR, that is not name calling. Implying that your screen name is fitting would be sarcasm. But you chose your name. If I was "FatJim13", I sure wouldn't gripe when someone implies that I'm overweight. I ain't complainin'...you are.

[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Jun 30th, 2004 at 04:19 PM]

[WindyCityBlue]

Do you live in a vacuum?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Yes, they were wrong. When most every major professional sport allows some sort of instant replay or process for overturning bad calls, how can you argue that it is a bad thing?
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I can see you are getting out of your element a bit. The NFL can only rule on very specific situations. They cannot overrule penalty calls or most judgment calls for that matter. They can mainly look at catch/no catch. A spot (which I have yet to see overturned btw). And the NFL has a very specific procedures that the coaches are the main people to request those plays.

The NBA or NCAA can only use the clock for timing errors and last second shots.

Again, learn to read. I said that there are mechanisms and processes in place at almost every professional sport to allow for the correct call to be made. They do this to protect the integrity of the game. I never specified a sport or said every call is eligible for challenge. You are a very selective reader. The point I made is that if they are giving their officials the opportunity to correct their judgement, why would you be opposed to it at the high school and college level?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


Nice use of our native tongue...incomplete sentences, incorrect grammar and no logic. Did you see the play? I did...he whistled it out, pointed the direction of award and the crowd went nuts. The closest opposing player jumped up and down at the call. One of the referees ran over, they conferred for about ten seconds and the referee who came in with the help, SIGNALLED THE OTHER WAY! The ref who made the initial call moved up the side and the "helping" ref worked the inbounds. These were Division 1 referees and from what I understand, it's pretty tough to get the call for those games, so they must be pretty good. I guess they should have consulted with you and Rut before they made the call.

Let us say everything you say is true. You were at the game? You heard the conversation that they had with each other? I just got back from a camp where a D1 Officials runs a camp with his name as the headliner. Do you want to tell him how much you know about Basketball Officiating?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
JR, that is not name calling. Implying that your screen name is fitting would be be sarcasm. But you chose your name. If I was "FatJim13", I sure wouldn't gripe when someone implies that I'm overweight. I ain't complainin'...you are.

Of course it is not name calling. The Almight WindyCityBlue says so. The very same person who has so much respect in Chicago, but cannot give his name. Not that we cannot figure it out. There are only so many guys with a resume that you claim you have, but that is why the folks around you say what the do about you.

"You might need more Gingko!"

I guess this statement is about the issue, not name calling.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

This wasn't even directed to you. You just can't help yourself.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
[B]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


Nice use of our native tongue...incomplete sentences, incorrect grammar and no logic. Did you see the play? I did...he whistled it out, pointed the direction of award and the crowd went nuts. The closest opposing player jumped up and down at the call. One of the referees ran over, they conferred for about ten seconds and the referee who came in with the help, SIGNALLED THE OTHER WAY! The ref who made the initial call moved up the side and the "helping" ref worked the inbounds. These were Division 1 referees and from what I understand, it's pretty tough to get the call for those games, so they must be pretty good. I guess they should have consulted with you and Rut before they made the call.

Let us say everything you say is true. You were at the game? You heard the conversation that they had with each other? I just got back from a camp where a D1 Officials runs a camp with his name as the headliner. Do you want to tell him how much you know about Basketball Officiating?

WHAT THE F*CK??? I am pointing out a play JR says doesn't exist. It has nothing to do with correct mechanics. He said it cannot, never, ever happen 'cause it's a rule. Well, these guys are much more accomplished thatn either of you and they allowed it to happen. I don't care about band camp, basketball camp or whatever special ed camp you attended. It has nothing to do with a statement made to another person.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
JR, that is not name calling. Implying that your screen name is fitting would be be sarcasm. But you chose your name. If I was "FatJim13", I sure wouldn't gripe when someone implies that I'm overweight. I ain't complainin'...you are.

Of course it is not name calling. The Almight WindyCityBlue says so. The very same person who has so much respect in Chicago, but cannot give his name. Not that we cannot figure it out. There are only so many guys with a resume that you claim you have, but that is why the folks around you say what the do about you.

You have no idea who I am. You keep guessing and very incorrectly, I might add. If you did, you would use my name and call me out. Instead, you point to a member of my group that lives in Roselle. I am humored, he laughs at you.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Do you live in a vacuum?...

...Again, learn to read.

Windy;

Why would you expect him to be able to read English? He can't write it.

As far as the question about the vacuum is concerned it would appear that the answer is "YES"! The vacuum is contained in that space between his ears.

Peter

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Again, learn to read. I said that there are mechanisms and processes in place at almost every professional sport to allow for the correct call to be made. They do this to protect the integrity of the game.

I did not realize pro baseball had replay.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
"When most every major professional sport allows some sort of instant replay or process for overturning bad calls, how can you argue that it is a bad thing?"

This is your exact quote. What did you mean by this then?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I never specified a sport or said every call is eligible for challenge. You are a very selective reader.

Well, football and basketball and hockey are the only pro sports I can think of that uses replay. Hockey only uses it for goals. No offside calls or penalty calls. Not even the World Football League uses replay, which is owned by the NFL. I have never seen it in Arena. I do not watch a lot of soccer, but I have never seen replay in the MLS. They do not use it in Tennis. They do not use it in pro Softball. Never seen it in beach volleyball. Nascar does not use it to make on the spot decisions using replay. The Indy Racing League the same. And I have never seen Tiger Woods wait on a decision after further review. But those are most sports, and I have yet to see them in baseball as well.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
The point I made is that if they are giving their officials the opportunity to correct their judgement, why would you be opposed to it at the high school and college level?

For one, you are talking about one call and trying to apply it to other judgment calls. As I have stated, you cannot give information about a foul call. You cannot give information to correct a travel call. You cannot give information about most judgment calls, except for an out of bounds call. You called it "over-ruling" and JR took exception to that language. Again, you were not at the actual game and you did not hear the conversation between the two officials, but you know what happen. A balk call to me is just like a foul call. It is my judgment. Of course, if I ruled based on an incorrect rule, I have not problem with correcting me or any umpire about how we are going to apply a rule. That is acceptable in all sports. Just like you are not going to tell me I messed up a 5 second call, you better not tell me I called a balk incorrectly, when that is my judgment. You talk about being D1, I know you do not do that with those guys. You cannot tell me that makes you a lot of friends? But you will and call me stupid and say I do not know what I am talking about. Or that I have no logic.

Whatever.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You have no idea who I am.

I really do not care who you are. It is just obvious to folks that know, because you keep telling everyone who you are with your resume.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You keep guessing and very incorrectly, I might add. If you did, you would use my name and call me out.

Actually, other folks guessed. And they said who they think you are. You want to believe it is me, but I only know one D1 and Minor Minor League umpire personally. He does not feel the way you do about any of this crap. Not in the actual phone conversations I have had with him, nor the the conversations I have had with him in person.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Instead, you point to a member of my group that lives in Roselle. I am humored, he laughs at you.

I do not care where he lives or you live. When I start worrying about baseball umpires and their current thoughts, I will let you know. Do not hold your breathe.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


Did you see the play? I did...he whistled it out, pointed the direction of award and the crowd went nuts. The closest opposing player jumped up and down at the call. One of the referees ran over, they conferred for about ten seconds and the referee who came in with the help, SIGNALLED THE OTHER WAY! The ref who made the initial call moved up the side and the "helping" ref worked the inbounds. These were Division 1 referees and from what I understand, it's pretty tough to get the call for those games, so they must be pretty good.

Lemme say it again very slowly for you, WCB:

Basketball officials can never over rule another basketball official! Ever!

NCAA rule 2-2-3- "No official shall have authority to set aside or question decisions made by other official(s) within the limits of their respective duties"
NCAA rule 2-2-4- "One official may assist another official by providing additional information related to a made decision".

In the situation that you laid out, the officials followed the procedure contained in the appropriate NCAA rules quoted above. One official did NOT over rule another official, as YOU stated earlier. They aren't allowed to, under the rules that I cited.

You were wrong. You still are wrong. If you continue to insist on saying that a basketball official over ruled another basketball official in that situation, you will be wrong again. And if you post your resume again, as you seem to like to do every 2 or 3 posts or so, that won't help you at all either and you will be just as wrong. And you can call me names or make smart remarks as often as you like too, which seems to be another posting tactic that you like to use, and that still won't change the fact that you were wrong.

[WindyCityBlue]

Jurassic -

Okay, I'm wrong. The play never happened. I never saw it. It couldn't occur because you say so. End of story.

Arguing with the feable minded is just not fun anymore, so I will not try to challenge you on this topic again.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Jurassic -

Okay, I'm wrong. The play never happened. I never saw it. It couldn't occur because you say so. End of story.

Arguing with the feable minded is just not fun anymore, so I will not try to challenge you on this topic again.

Can never admit you are wrong I see?

You are right, you do baseball at the Minor League and D1 Level, but you know what the conversation entailed by watching it on TV. I thought Superman got killed off in the comic books?

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Jurassic -

Okay, I'm wrong. The play never happened. I never saw it. It couldn't occur because you say so. End of story.

Arguing with the feable minded is just not fun anymore, so I will not try to challenge you on this topic again.

Feeble minded? Jur-***-ic?

Lot of class there, WCB. You're completely predictable, though. Did you forget to post your resume this time, to go along with the slurs?

Your post above is complete and utter crap. The play happened exactly as you said it did. Except for the point that we have been arguing all along. One official did NOT over rule the other official. You can spew your bullsh*t as much as you like, but there ain't nuthin' that's gonna change that fact. You were wrong, and you don't have the balls to admit it.

[WindyCityBlue]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Again, learn to read. I said that there are mechanisms and processes in place at almost every professional sport to allow for the correct call to be made. They do this to protect the integrity of the game.
------------------------------------------------------------

I did not realize pro baseball had replay.

Refer to the first sentence...almost every doesn't mean "ALL".


quote:
------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
"When most every major professional sport allows some sort of instant replay or process for overturning bad calls, how can you argue that it is a bad thing?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is your exact quote. What did you mean by this then?

Careful, this might hurt. WHY...ARE...YOU...AFRAID...TO...HAVE...A...MECHANI SM...IN...PLACE...THAT...ALLLOWS...YOU...TO...GET. ..THE...CALL...RIGHT? If many professsional sports allow bad rulings to be changed by their officials, even judgement calls (Example: completed catch in the end zone or sideline), why are you opposed to allowing your partner to help you get a call right on a high school baseball field? Yes, we know you are a GOD and never are out of position, but ON THIS SITE, you said that you would never allow it to happen.


quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
The point I made is that if they are giving their officials the opportunity to correct their judgement, why would you be opposed to it at the high school and college level?
------------------------------------------------------------------------


For one, you are talking about one call and trying to apply it to other judgment calls.

No I'm not. I've pointed out several calls. Go back and read.

As I have stated, you cannot give information about a foul call. You cannot give information to correct a travel call. You cannot give information about most judgment calls, except for an out of bounds call. You called it "over-ruling" and JR took exception to that language.

Yes, he's wrong. Everyone else seems to be able to understand. I gave up trying with him. Old dogs are good for one thing...

Again, you were not at the actual game and you did not hear the conversation between the two officials, but you know what happened.

SportsCenter is so cool...you should watch it sometime. Besides showing it from several different angles, the commentator pointed out that the correct call had been made by teh official that had the better angle...not the calling official. And yes, I saw it on live TV, too. While, I'm certain that the official didn't say, "Hey Rut, the was the worst call I ever saw, let's give texas Tech the ball because I've got five grand on this one." I've been around long enough, to know that the guy who called it wrong, had no problem getting it corrected. How's that..."Corrected", not overruled. Maybe your fragile egos can handle that.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue



This is your exact quote. What did you mean by this then?

Careful, this might hurt. WHY...ARE...YOU...AFRAID...TO...HAVE...A...MECHANI SM...IN...PLACE...THAT...ALLLOWS...YOU...TO...GET. ..THE...CALL...RIGHT? If many professsional sports allow bad rulings to be changed by their officials, even judgement calls (Example: completed catch in the end zone or sideline), why are you opposed to allowing your partner to help you get a call right on a high school baseball field? Yes, we know you are a GOD and never are out of position, but ON THIS SITE, you said that you would never allow it to happen.

When I work pro ball, I will worry about what the pros do. Simple enough for me. And it helps that they have usually more umpires on the field. Unless they are at the lowest of levels of baseball.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue

The point I made is that if they are giving their officials the opportunity to correct their judgement, why would you be opposed to it at the high school and college level?

You need to read what I said, and stop trying to let your "Peter" decide for you what to think. I have no problem with getting calls right, but if my partners cannot get basic calls right, they will not be there anymore. Chances are, they had a better look at the play than I did.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
No I'm not. I've pointed out several calls. Go back and read.

I have, it still makes not sense.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Yes, he's wrong. Everyone else seems to be able to understand. I gave up trying with him. Old dogs are good for one thing...

He was? OK, I will take your word for it. You do Minor League Baseball. Why not tell us what the NFL does with their calls as well? You know some NFL Officials too right, tell us what they do?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
SportsCenter is so cool...you should watch it sometime. Besides showing it from several different angles, the commentator pointed out that the correct call had been made by teh official that had the better angle...not the calling official. And yes, I saw it on live TV, too. While, I'm certain that the official didn't say, "Hey Rut, the was the worst call I ever saw, let's give texas Tech the ball because I've got five grand on this one." I've been around long enough, to know that the guy who called it wrong, had no problem getting it corrected. How's that..."Corrected", not overruled. Maybe your fragile egos can handle that.

You are quoting SportsCenter as a justification for what officials do? SC has said guys were out of position, the officials did not use the proper rule or that the official was out of line, but you are quoting SC as a justification for this argument?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Old dogs are good for one thing...

[/B]

Yup, we sure are, Windy:


Get the idea?

Now, I'm still waiting for you to tell me WHY the FED and NCAA rules citations that I posted ARE wrong, and exactly HOW one basketball official CAN over rule another basketball official, as YOU stated. I await that explanation. Not your resume, Windy. To be quite honest, resumes always seem to be a little suspect when their author obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. Please try to keep away from your usual slurs that you also like to insert in place of a logical argument. They really don't serve much of a purpose either. Just give me a simple explanation that will tell me why the rules that I cited are wrong, and you are right, Windy.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee



Now, I'm still waiting for you to tell me WHY the FED and NCAA rules citations that I posted ARE wrong, and exactly HOW one basketball official CAN over rule another basketball official, as YOU stated. I await that explanation. Not your resume, Windy. To be quite honest, resumes always seem to be a little suspect when their author obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. Please try to keep away from your usual slurs that you also like to insert in place of a logical argument. They really don't serve much of a purpose either. Just give me a simple explanation that will tell me why the rules that I cited are wrong, and you are right, Windy.

Ok, I don't know anything about basketball officiating but I just read the posts in question. Despite your lies, Windy did not say anything about one basketball referee overruling another. What he said was, two referees got together and talked and the call was changed. Since you appear to be unable to get that point, let me explain how that works in baseball. One official does not overrule another in baseball either, but here is how it works:

I see my partner tank a call and I get together with him. Most likely, he changes the call, but if he refuses and I am the big dog, I say quietly to him:

"You either change that call or this will be the last game you work at this level." Unless he is an idiot, and wants to retire, HE changes the call. Notice, that I did not change the call, HE did. Umpires don't change other umpires calls, we put pressure on our partners to change them. It's all a matter of semantics.

Which is exactly what Windy said. The call got changed. Who knows what transpired between the officials. One could have reminded the other about his position in the big scheme of things.

Once again for the reading challenged, Windy did not say that one official overruled the other. He said that the call got changed after a conference. He does not know what pressure one official placed on another. Neither do you.

This discussion reminds me of the umpire from down under (who diddles with sheep) who insisted that other umpires never changed calls. He went through exactly the same tortured logic as you to insist that calls cannot be changed by other umpires.

OK, they can't. I admit that by the rules, I cannot change another umpires calls. But I can put enough pressure on him to make him "voluntarily" change his own call.

And that is what Windy was saying. And you would have recognized that if you weren't joined at the hip with the moron from Illinois.

Rut, do you think that I am WindyCityBlue. Is that one of my aliases? Am I fronting as WCB in order to make it appear as if I have support. That is your logic, isn't it?

Peter

[Edited by His High Holiness on Jun 30th, 2004 at 06:52 PM]