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Thu Jun 10, 2004, 11:30pm
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Runners on 1st and 2nd, one out. Batter has full count. Last pitch is called a ball by plate ump and catcher appeals to field ump who said the batter did in fact go around. Out #2!! Catcher then throws down to third and catches runner at third off the bag. Is this out #3 or is the ball dead because of the appeal???
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Thu Jun 10, 2004, 11:42pm
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 12:02am
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 10:37am
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On this same note...is it a dead ball when the batter is out for slinging the bat? I thought he was just out and the other runners were live, but a dead ball was called as well. This is Ruth/Ripken.
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 10:57am
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 01:16pm
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SO- you guys are saying that if runner on 2nd base was going to third base because he thought (and was told by PU) there was a base on balls, then the subsequent change of call by BU to a strike leaves the runners vulnerable?
Doesn't seem right. You want all your runners to stay right on the base, waiting to see if there might be some sort of appeal. When do you require them to go --- wouldn't want to be caught off base when that appeal is made!!!
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 01:22pm
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 01:26pm
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 01:34pm
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(c) The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing. Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail. Baserunners must be alert to the possibility that the base umpire on appeal from the plate umpire may reverse the call of a ball to the call of a strike, in which event the runner is in jeopardy of being out by the catcher's throw. Also, a catcher must be alert in a base stealing situation if a ball call is reversed to a strike by the base umpire upon appeal from the plate umpire. The ball is in play on appeal on a half swing. On a half swing, if the manager comes out to argue with first or third base umpire and if after being warned he persists in arguing, he can be ejected as he is now arguing over a called ball or strike.
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 01:47pm
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No, I mean at the end of his swing he lets go of the bat slinging it several feet or even to the backstop. I do not see a rule in the book, but I've never seen this rule not enforced.
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Fri Jun 11, 2004, 03:25pm
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At the risk of hijacking this thread, that's the problem with local rules. No one really thinks them through and they are rife with ambiguity and sometimes unintentionally conflict with other rules.
How do you call a person out for throwing a bat? The defense did nothing to earn the out. And how far does the bat have to travel before it is considered thrown? 3 feet? What if someone tosses it 2 feet, 10 inches? Assuming that this rule is to prevent dangerous flying objects, do you award a batter first if the catcher throws his mask? What if the batter takes ball 4 and then tosses his bat to the dugout? Is he out? What happens to runners on base? What happens if he hits a home run and when dropping the bat it travels "too far?" Is he out? What about the runners? When does the out occur? At the time the bat is thrown, on appeal, or at the end of the play? Was any of this considered when creating a rule that you can't throw a bat?
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