Dead ball or not??? - Page 2

LDUB · #16 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 11, 2004, 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger
No, I mean at the end of his swing he lets go of the bat slinging it several feet or even to the backstop. I do not see a rule in the book, but I've never seen this rule not enforced.

In FED this is warn, then eject.

mcrowder · #17 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 11, 2004, 04:16pm

In Dixie, it's normally taken that an out for a thrown bat happens when the batter flings the bat as part of the follow-through after a hit. I can see the reasoning - safety. An airborne bat is much more dangerous than a lot of the other things prohibited in many jurisdictions for safety reasons. 3 Feet is definitely not enough ... and tossing it to the dugout is not either.

DG · #18 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 11, 2004, 05:28pm

Leagues that have bat slinging rules are generally concerned with safety. I had two last night in a Babe Ruth game, same batter both times. RH batter, after hitting the ball, the bat ends up against the backstop, on the right side, which means he finished his follow through and slung it while bringing it back and starting for 1B. I had one a week or so ago, whree a RH batter hit a ball, and released the bat at the top of his backswing and it hit me in the neck.

TWelker · #19 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 12, 2004, 12:14am

We were up by 1 run, it was the bottom of the 7th and they were the home team. The next pitch was a hit in the gap that scored 2.

DG · #20 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 12, 2004, 12:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by TWelker
We were up by 1 run, it was the bottom of the 7th and they were the home team. The next pitch was a hit in the gap that scored 2.

So you blame the loss on one call, late in the game, meaning nothing else that happened earlier mattered, or that you could have gotten an out on the very next pitch instead of a hit. Ayayaya...

Is there no protest procedure for rules in this tournament?

[Edited by DG on Jun 12th, 2004 at 01:44 AM]

David B · #21 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 12, 2004, 11:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by TWelker
We were up by 1 run, it was the bottom of the 7th and they were the home team. The next pitch was a hit in the gap that scored 2.

I'm assuming you had more than one umpire (since you said he asked for help). You should have protested or made sure both umpires got together on their ruling.

Out of curiosity, why did he put the runner back on third?

Did he think the ball was dead, or did he call time?

Other than that, I would have protested.

Thanks
David

ecurebel · #22 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 12:43am

thats why you get somebody to design your local rules besides mom and pops who are there to "improve the program"...get somebody who has been umpiring and seen alot of ball to make up the extra rules then get them voted on...don't let some idiot make up your rules

MarionTiger · #23 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 07:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
In Dixie, it's normally taken that an out for a thrown bat happens when the batter flings the bat as part of the follow-through after a hit. I can see the reasoning - safety. An airborne bat is much more dangerous than a lot of the other things prohibited in many jurisdictions for safety reasons. 3 Feet is definitely not enough ... and tossing it to the dugout is not either.

In DY, is it a dead ball when an out is called?

MarionTiger · #24 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 07:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
At the risk of hijacking this thread, that's the problem with local rules. No one really thinks them through and they are rife with ambiguity and sometimes unintentionally conflict with other rules.

How do you call a person out for throwing a bat? The defense did nothing to earn the out. And how far does the bat have to travel before it is considered thrown? 3 feet? What if someone tosses it 2 feet, 10 inches? Assuming that this rule is to prevent dangerous flying objects, do you award a batter first if the catcher throws his mask?

What if the batter takes ball 4 and then tosses his bat to the dugout? Is he out? What happens to runners on base?

What happens if he hits a home run and when dropping the bat it travels "too far?" Is he out? What about the runners? When does the out occur? At the time the bat is thrown, on appeal, or at the end of the play?

Was any of this considered when creating a rule that you can't throw a bat?

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I think that's why you get one warning. Because it is not a clear rule and is a judgement call. I've never seen this rule get over-enforced.

Rich · #25 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 07:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
At the risk of hijacking this thread, that's the problem with local rules. No one really thinks them through and they are rife with ambiguity and sometimes unintentionally conflict with other rules.

How do you call a person out for throwing a bat? The defense did nothing to earn the out. And how far does the bat have to travel before it is considered thrown? 3 feet? What if someone tosses it 2 feet, 10 inches? Assuming that this rule is to prevent dangerous flying objects, do you award a batter first if the catcher throws his mask?

What if the batter takes ball 4 and then tosses his bat to the dugout? Is he out? What happens to runners on base?

What happens if he hits a home run and when dropping the bat it travels "too far?" Is he out? What about the runners? When does the out occur? At the time the bat is thrown, on appeal, or at the end of the play?

Was any of this considered when creating a rule that you can't throw a bat?

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I think that's why you get one warning. Because it is not a clear rule and is a judgement call. I've never seen this rule get over-enforced.

I've never seen this rule actually in place. Frankly, it's stupid. Outs should be earned on the field, not given to teams for no good reason. Warn, then eject is a much better way to handle this kind of a situation.

MarionTiger · #26 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 08:22am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
At the risk of hijacking this thread, that's the problem with local rules. No one really thinks them through and they are rife with ambiguity and sometimes unintentionally conflict with other rules.

How do you call a person out for throwing a bat? The defense did nothing to earn the out. And how far does the bat have to travel before it is considered thrown? 3 feet? What if someone tosses it 2 feet, 10 inches? Assuming that this rule is to prevent dangerous flying objects, do you award a batter first if the catcher throws his mask?

What if the batter takes ball 4 and then tosses his bat to the dugout? Is he out? What happens to runners on base?

What happens if he hits a home run and when dropping the bat it travels "too far?" Is he out? What about the runners? When does the out occur? At the time the bat is thrown, on appeal, or at the end of the play?

Was any of this considered when creating a rule that you can't throw a bat?

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I think that's why you get one warning. Because it is not a clear rule and is a judgement call. I've never seen this rule get over-enforced.

I've never seen this rule actually in place. Frankly, it's stupid. Outs should be earned on the field, not given to teams for no good reason. Warn, then eject is a much better way to handle this kind of a situation.

I don't have a problem with that except it would still result in an out then, and everytime that player would be scheduled to appear at the plate in our league.

Rich · #27 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 08:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
At the risk of hijacking this thread, that's the problem with local rules. No one really thinks them through and they are rife with ambiguity and sometimes unintentionally conflict with other rules.

How do you call a person out for throwing a bat? The defense did nothing to earn the out. And how far does the bat have to travel before it is considered thrown? 3 feet? What if someone tosses it 2 feet, 10 inches? Assuming that this rule is to prevent dangerous flying objects, do you award a batter first if the catcher throws his mask?

What if the batter takes ball 4 and then tosses his bat to the dugout? Is he out? What happens to runners on base?

What happens if he hits a home run and when dropping the bat it travels "too far?" Is he out? What about the runners? When does the out occur? At the time the bat is thrown, on appeal, or at the end of the play?

Was any of this considered when creating a rule that you can't throw a bat?

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I think that's why you get one warning. Because it is not a clear rule and is a judgement call. I've never seen this rule get over-enforced.

I've never seen this rule actually in place. Frankly, it's stupid. Outs should be earned on the field, not given to teams for no good reason. Warn, then eject is a much better way to handle this kind of a situation.

I don't have a problem with that except it would still result in an out then, and everytime that player would be scheduled to appear at the plate in our league.

Well, sounds like you're following a stupid local rule with another. Our local league bats everyone. I ejected a 13-year-old the other night. No penalty -- you just skip over the ejected batter.

MarionTiger · #28 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 10:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
At the risk of hijacking this thread, that's the problem with local rules. No one really thinks them through and they are rife with ambiguity and sometimes unintentionally conflict with other rules.

How do you call a person out for throwing a bat? The defense did nothing to earn the out. And how far does the bat have to travel before it is considered thrown? 3 feet? What if someone tosses it 2 feet, 10 inches? Assuming that this rule is to prevent dangerous flying objects, do you award a batter first if the catcher throws his mask?

What if the batter takes ball 4 and then tosses his bat to the dugout? Is he out? What happens to runners on base?

What happens if he hits a home run and when dropping the bat it travels "too far?" Is he out? What about the runners? When does the out occur? At the time the bat is thrown, on appeal, or at the end of the play?

Was any of this considered when creating a rule that you can't throw a bat?

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I think that's why you get one warning. Because it is not a clear rule and is a judgement call. I've never seen this rule get over-enforced.

I've never seen this rule actually in place. Frankly, it's stupid. Outs should be earned on the field, not given to teams for no good reason. Warn, then eject is a much better way to handle this kind of a situation.

I don't have a problem with that except it would still result in an out then, and everytime that player would be scheduled to appear at the plate in our league.

Well, sounds like you're following a stupid local rule with another. Our local league bats everyone. I ejected a 13-year-old the other night. No penalty -- you just skip over the ejected batter.

Well I guess your league is just "smarter" than ours. I guess when players bat out of turn it is just overlooked, since that would not be an "earned" out.

So I understand you correctly, you are going to eject a 7-year-old for slinging his bat?

bob jenkins · #29 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 11:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by MarionTiger
So I understand you correctly, you are going to eject a 7-year-old for slinging his bat?

I would (it's been a long, long time since I've done a game with players that young -- but I have EJ'd a 13/14 year-old and a HS player in the past 5 or so years).

The "best" rule I've seen on this -- the player that throws the bat isn't out, but the next player in the line-up is. Nothing gets a kid's attention like peer-pressure. When a team and another individual is made to suffer, the offending action is (usually) quickly corrected.

BTW, I had a college wood-bat league game this weekend. A lefty let go of the bat and it hit me (PU) in the thigh, then in the cup. He got warned.

Blue37 · #30 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 14, 2004, 12:11pm

mcrowder wrote: Bat throwing is often a local rule. It is actually written into the Dixie rules - 1st offense is an out, no leeway.

I have a son who umpires Dixie and we had a conversation on this rule recently. He is not aware of any such rule. I went to the Dixie Youth rules and the Dixie rules and could not find such a rule. Could you point it out for me so I can share it with him?