|
Quote:
I saw an interesting solution to habitual bat tossing recently. In a 8-9 year old game where the entire roster bats, a player threw his bat twice. Once after a popup his bat ended up at the mound. The second time he walked, carried his bat halfway to first and then threw it to his dugout on the third base line. Nearly hit the umpire. The ump went to the coach and told him that the player was to remain on the bench next time his turn came up in the order. No out, just pass him over. Since kids this age love to bat, this made an impact. I'm not sure I could make such a call and have it stick if the coach protested, but an interesting solution nonetheless. [Edited by akalsey on Jun 14th, 2004 at 07:49 PM] |
Quote:
I would eject the 7-year old, yes. That is theoretical, cause I've never worked a game where 7 year olds play. When would 7-year-olds ever need umpires? |
Carelessly throwing a bat is generally a local safety rule intended to punish the offender, which is it's own manner of instruction. It is not there to reward the defense for something they did not earn.
|
Quote:
|
Well I guess your league is just "smarter" than ours. I guess when players bat out of turn it is just overlooked, since that would not be an "earned" out. So I understand you correctly, you are going to eject a 7-year-old for slinging his bat? [/B][/QUOTE] I guess we are just smarter. BOOT is specifically in the book -- we don't feel the need to put in local rules because we don't feel like we are smarter than those that wrote the rules. I would eject the 7-year old, yes. That is theoretical, cause I've never worked a game where 7 year olds play. When would 7-year-olds ever need umpires? [/B][/QUOTE] If you are serious about the 7-year-olds needing umpires, then nevermind. You obviously live in a different world than the rest of us. |
Well I disagree
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarionTiger
Well I guess your league is just "smarter" than ours. I guess when players bat out of turn it is just overlooked, since that would not be an "earned" out. So I understand you correctly, you are going to eject a 7-year-old for slinging his bat? I guess we are just smarter. BOOT is specifically in the book -- we don't feel the need to put in local rules because we don't feel like we are smarter than those that wrote the rules. I would eject the 7-year old, yes. That is theoretical, cause I've never worked a game where 7 year olds play. When would 7-year-olds ever need umpires? If you are serious about the 7-year-olds needing umpires, then nevermind. You obviously live in a different world than the rest of us. [QUOTE] My son plays baseball, he is in the 5-6 year league, next year the 7-8 league. We have youth umpires, (you might call them that) and they are more harmful than good. Unless they are highly trained (and then they won't do it becuase of the demands of time etc) they do more harm than good. Let's see in my son's games I saw with regularity: Foul balls called fair Fair balls called foul Batters called out for slinging bats (another kid slings a bat and nothing is called) Runners safe by three steps called out and vice versa Force outs called safe because they didn't tag them And I could go on and on. So my point is that the coaches could just as easily call the games. The offensive coach pitches since this is coach pitch and he could call one side of the field and the third base coach could call the other side. As much as parents want this to be "super ball" its not, and to have umpires is really nothing more than a show. DISCLAIMER: (Now I say this having been an assignor for ten years in a league that this was "serious" ball. We used umpires and they were trained, but IMHO it was a waste of money. All I got was coaches complaining way too much to a 14-15 year old. So my opinion is to use adults, then we could have a real good knock down drag out fight on the field and really teach the kids what baseball is all about.) Thanks David |
<i> Originally posted by akalsey </i>
<b> Originally posted by bob jenkins The "best" rule I've seen on this -- the player that throws the bat isn't out, but the next player in the line-up is. Nothing gets a kid's attention like peer-pressure. When a team and another individual is made to suffer, the offending action is (usually) quickly corrected. </b> <i> When someone uses profanity on the field, do you eject a random player from the bench? Punishing a player for the mistake of another is a quick way to send the game into chaos. </i> I agree with Bob, the major cure to many of these things is to make the team suffer. If the team suffers, then the shenanigans will take care of itself. Look at Football / basketball. Let's say the defense makes a great stop on 4th and short in football, and the ball is ready to be turned over to the offense, but some knucklehead on defense roughs the QB or commits a similar unsportsmanlike act. Ruling: The player depending upon the act could be EJ'D but the more important point is both the <b> Offensive and Defensive TEAM </b> now suffer because of the actions of ONE player. The offensive does not go on the field, and the defense is penalized 15 yards and an automatic first down to the other team. If this happens you do not have to worry about the coach getting all over this player his teammates will. In a nutshell, I agree with Bob in that if the TEAM as a whole suffers, many of these issues will go away or the player will not be on the team anymore. Pete Booth |
It would be rediculous to call out the following batter because the preceeding batter slung his bat. If there is to be a rule against bat slinging penalize the offender. Peer pressure... give me a break... and get real.
|
I agree. The football analogy is a false analogy. If you call the following batter out, you are punishing an innocent individual as well as the team.
If you must call someone out, have it be the person who offended. Does this added out not punish the team? I still maintain that calling an out for throwing a bat is a dumb rule. The defense did nothing to earn the out. I think the safety issue of bat tossing can be taken care of in other ways. If you've given them a warning or two and they won't stop, eject them. Or if the league makes players miss the next game if they're ejected, tell the coach that it's time for the player to spend the rest of the game on the bench. If the coach complains tell him that the alternatve is ejection. I'd bet the coach goes along with it. |
<B>SO- you guys are saying that if runner on 2nd base was going to third base because he thought (and was told by PU) there was a base on balls, then the subsequent change of call by BU to a strike leaves the runners vulnerable?
Doesn't seem right. You want all your runners to stay right on the base, waiting to see if there might be some sort of appeal. When do you require them to go --- wouldn't want to be caught off base when that appeal is made!!!</B> 6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when_ (a) Four "balls" have been called by the umpire; A batter who is entitled to first base because of a base on balls must go to first base and touch the base before other base runners are forced to advance |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05pm. |