Overturning Your BU

[wadeintothem]

Let me set the stage and then get input.

LL Majors - my BU is 14 y/o Babe Ruth kid. Im PU

Team Red appealed to me _twice_ for R leaving early from 3B on a passed ball - both times the BU is on one knee in C looking at and picking at the grass... generally disinterested - certainly not watching my play at home. Both times the runner was safe at fairly close plays at home. On one appeal I literally had to call out to him to get his attention for opinion on the R leaving 3B early.

I went to the GD stance with people on base just to be able to watch the bases a little closer. I kept talking to the BU between innings trying to work on his mechanics. The Red coach is of course irate at the BU and threatening to protest, etc. The kid who knows these guys kept telling me the coach was an A$$hole, etc. He never changed his less than fully engaged style. Two other plays on 2B steals he called team red out on very close plays. I cant say for sure that they were out or safe, but my feeling was they were safe.

Team Red is losing 9-0 by now because of bats (not BU's calls IMO). But you can get a sense of the flavor of the game and Team Reds attitude, and I myself was embarrassed at my BU's work ethic.

OK Red at bat - BR hits to F6 who makes a decent play but bobbled the ball a little - I was watching closely and in good position - BR was safe. BU in A calls him out. Red coach and their stands go ballistic and coach appeals to me. I tell him you cant appeal to me on a call at 1B like that, he needed to take it to the BU.

Red Coach appeals to BU and the BU signals for me to rule on the appeal... I call out the runner (which of course pisses team black off). The conversation with black coach went something like Me: "Look coach, you were right there (1B base coach), you know he was out" Him: "I dont care, you only should over turn it on a pulled foot or something like that". That told me he even knew it was a bad call but was not happy with the overturn itself.

Anyway, I've never overruled my BU before, but I really felt like allowing the BU, who hadnt done his job to my satisfaction to this point and obviously did not like the red coach, to screw team red again when they are getting crushed was wrong. In a way I agreed with the black coach that I should not have done it, but my attitude was based on the whole game - normally, I would have sided with the BU even if I knew he was wrong.

Between the innings the BU tells me he thinks the out was a good call and I tell him that if he stands by his call, simply dont grant the coach appeal.

Thoughts on how I dealt with this please.

[Edited by wadeintothem on Jun 2nd, 2004 at 09:45 AM]

[LMan]

A difficult situation. I think you are on solid ground since the BU asked for your judgment, and you state that you felt he was safe, regardless of your other motivations.

I have this same issue where I ump. The BUs are often young kids who cannot pay attention to the game long enough to make good calls, but apparently the league is too short of volunteers to get anyone better. Sadly, I usually consider myself to be working alone at the plate and do not expect any help or support from them. If I get it, its a bonus, but I wont place my rep (such as it is) or game management in their hands at any time.

If this guy is the exception and not the rule (lucky you!), and you can afford to do without him, you might take the matter to your UIC and ask that this guy be warned/put on probation/whatever so that he can be removed upon another occurance. Animosity with coaches can be dealt with, but general indifference during a game is inexcusable.

[jicecone]

First of all, I will assume (which I know can get me in trouble), that you were the senior umpire here. Therefore it is your responsibility to protect the crew under all cost. Im talking about this level of ball , LL majors.

Do your best to work with the young official during the game and offer as much constructive critique as possible after the game. By telling the coach it was your partners call, you basically sold him out to the wolves. You should have been telling the coach that the call was whatever he called it and he would have to deal with it. You should of put an end to it right there.

Just remember when one umpire looks bad, the crew looks bad, and that includes you. I would have been all over this coach real early and taking control of the situation and let him know that you were protecting your partner, right or wrong. In between innings I would have been instructing the young official (in an obvious manner) to try and help the situation.

Take a negative situation and make it as positive as possible and you might end up protecting a potential major league umpire. Ive been in that situation and was smileing from one end to the next when a young official came up to me 10 yrs latter and thanked me for the time I spent with him, as a result of a similar incident. I was a little jealous that he had already surpassed me on the ladder of officiating Baseball but, I was happy that I helped him get on the ladder.

[jumpmaster]

I think you did the right thing in this situation...except that jicone brings up an interesting point. You are the senior umpire and therefore have an obligation to protect, teach and coach the less experienced umpire. But this brings the question - when do you let your partner swim for himself. In this case, I think this was the right time to let him sink with his call.

I would definately talk with my UIC about this kid -either he straightens up or goes away.

About the coach for black - I would be concerned about his coaching skills if he failed to at least argue a little bit about this call.

[mcrowder]

All newbies can learn how to officiate if they CARE, and if they put forth the EFFORT.

After two lazy calls on the runners leaving early, he'd have gotten a short, but to the point, discussion that he'd better hustle, pay attention, and put forth some effort, or I'd be calling the game myself.

As to the overrule - since you left him there, he's in charge of that call. If he appealled to me, there would be a discussion, not an overrule. I'd tell him what I saw, but it's his call to overrule, not yours. And no, I don't believe "bad call" is a good enough reason to change a call. Pulled foot, swipe-tag, etc - something BU truly couldn't see from his angle - and you have an appropriate reason to tell him to change his call. Just a mistake - no.

[wadeintothem]

Thanks for the input guys - I was feeling a little guilty for overturning him and "feeding him to the wolves"; I was a little aggravated with him and embarrassed by him and I think I let that get in the way of doing the right thing from an umpire team point of view. Lots of interesting points to chew on. If he wasnt playing with the lawn on two different appeals plays, I'm sure I would have handled it much differently .. but he left me flapping in the wind and perhaps I kinda returned the favor by telling the coach to go to him... when I should have and usually would have told him to piss off on a 1B play. ... Probably, in the end analysis, my bad.

[DG]

I get shivers, thinking that I would partnered with a 14 year old. But if it happens, we will have a good pregame, and then he will have his calls and I will have mine. If he calls an out, which he did in this case, and then he points to me, we will have an onfield discussion that involves him taking responsibility for his calls and then we will have an OUT as originally called. Hopefully, the fans/coaches/etc. will be somewhat satisfied that we had a discussion and since we stuck with the original call, some might assume I agree, whether I do or not. If not, then tough. I am NOT leaving my wing man (oops wrong movie). If he called an OUT, then it will forever be an OUT. If he asks for help before making a call, then I will have some help for him. The onfield discussion will be centered around this basic concept. You make the call, live with it. If you want help then ask for it before making the call.

[UmpireBob]

I have mixed feelings on this one. But what I, personally, am guided by is my belief in helping someone to the point that they help themselves. Considering that the kid is only 14, my job is to protect him too.

If I'm the PU, then I'm the UIC for that game, pure and simple. My job is to provide fair adjudication for the game, provide a safe haven for the kids, and to provide a learning environment for the BU in this case. That said, this situation would not have gotten this far. I always have a pre-game discussion with my partners, so that they will know what calls are theirs, and which are mine, and how to handle certain situations (mechanics). I also explain that judgement calls are entirely theirs, so that they know this up front. Through this discussion, I have a pretty good indication of the kind of person I'll be working with.

As the game progressed, at the first sign of disinterest by the BU (as written above), I would have had a discussion with him, even if I had to call time with him during a half-inning to do it. At this point, I make my position known that either he gets interested real fast, or he can excuse himself. If it came to my telling him to leave, outright, I would give him the opportunity to leave quietly, explaining that I would "cover" for him by telling the coaches that he was sick or something. While asking a partner to leave is my last resort, if I feel justified in doing it, I'll do it. This includes a parent who is volunteering, who I feel really isn't cutting it. I handle it very tactfully, but I certainly try to get across my concern early on, before a situation might arise as it did here. Luckily, I've never had to do anything like this, but I certainly can imagine the time when it will.

Now, putting myself in the position where you were, after the blown call, I handle things this way. I note to the coach that per LLB rule 9.02(a), objection to a judgement call isn't allowed, and I cut the discussion right there. This is to protect the 14 year old BU. If the coach had gone directly to the BU to "argue" the call, then I step in directly, and point out 9.02(a). I try not to let the situation get to a point where the call gets appealed to me. However, if it did, then the BU and I go aside and have our conversation away from the coaches and players (as much as possible). Unless I can add some point of fact that I feel he might not have been able to see (different angle, something heard, etc.) then we leave the call as is, and I explain to the coach that the call was made, and that I have nothing to offer to change it. If the coach then goes ballistic, then he's gone.

[CDcoach]

Main point here I think for you to pick out...

Have an onfield discussion! Let him make the call. A lot of the times I will just say something along the lines of "Hey man he was out from where I was but it is your call. Do what you got to do, and I've got your back."

[LMan]

Had something similar not too long ago. I was BU, 14yo was PU (dont ask *sigh*). Quite a few kicked calls, but as they were judgement calls I didnt say anything from the field, even though fans and coachs were howling about them.

Then, he decided that a foul tip on the first pitch was an out, and sent the kid to the dugout. I couldnt let that pass, so I brought the kid back out and resumed play from strike one. We had a 'discussion' about that one *eyeroll*

He doesnt work the plate anymore. Unfortunately, his base calls arent much better, but at least the rules can be adjudged by the PU.

Its frustrating many times. I want to just grab em by the shirt collar and say, 'do you want to be an ump or not? Get serious or get out' but thats not my call. Nice kids, but its a lot of resp and pressure for a kid in the 9th or 10th grade.....

[mick]

Originally posted by LMan

He doesnt work the plate anymore. Unfortunately, his base calls arent much better, but at least the rules can be adjudged by the PU.

LMan,
I do not believe that the plate Umpire must be the game Umpire-in-chief in the instance of teaching a new/young umpire to work the plate.(eg, many times the MLB Crew Chief will work the bases.)
mick

[LMan]

Mick, I agree. In retrospect, I should have been more assertive in 'managing' this game on his behalf. But I suppose I was reluctant, since the majority of the 'issues' were judgement calls, not rule interps.

...another life-lesson to put in my kit bag!