Turning your head calling strike

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by KLooking

At the end of the game, my clinician said to me "NEVER TURN YOUR HEAD AWAY FROM THE PLAY!!!".



What do you think?

I think you were given very good advice.
There are all sorts of things that can happen out there on the field, especially with runners on that requre your attention.
Honestly, how many of us consistently work ball with a 3 or 4 man crew?
Not many.
Your eyes belong on the game, not trying to look cool like you belong in the bigs.
If you call a strike like that in my games, I am going to talk to you. When I work as a coach, I am going to eat you alive.

Don't do it, the lower the level of ball that you work, the more problems can happen.

[Rich]

Originally posted by tchaap
I'm and ASA ump just reading some of these baseball posts. Curious to know if there is a strike signal outlined in your rules book as it seems there are different techniques discussed in this thread? We have a specific strike signal in ASA.

This is why all the ASA umpires look robotic. There's room for some individuality in officiating.

There's nothing wrong with turning to the side, but it has to be done with good timing in mind. Once the ball is caught for certain, make the call.

Scott, I understand you mean well, but coaches do not discuss umpiring mechanics with me -- so I guarantee you that you wouldn't eat me alive when coaching.

[David B]

Originally posted by scottk_61

I think you were given very good advice.
There are all sorts of things that can happen out there on the field, especially with runners on that requre your attention.
Honestly, how many of us consistently work ball with a 3 or 4 man crew?
Not many.
Your eyes belong on the game, not trying to look cool like you belong in the bigs.
If you call a strike like that in my games, I am going to talk to you. When I work as a coach, I am going to eat you alive.

Don't do it, the lower the level of ball that you work, the more problems can happen.

If I'm PU, I don't see a big deal. I turned for years and someone at a clinic critiqued me. Said I didn't need to turn.

I had been doing it that way for 20 years and never missed anything. So why change now.

But, I did change my third strike call a few years ago, so now I don't turn that much.

But the statement above that I might miss something??

Crazy, that's why I have a BU. I know when something's fixing to happen on the field - called baseball instincts.

And as Rich said, no coach is going to say anything to me about what i call unless we're discussing a rule interpretation.

Thanks
David

[tiger49]

I have always punched out players at any age and have more compliments then complaints. The kids like it beacuse it makes them feel professional. One thing I do at that age is not to "bark" the call as much.

I also coach in a bowling program and with our under 5 kids we set up two lanes with bumpers and two lanes without, and there are more kids at the ones without than the ones with.

[KLooking]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
There's nothing wrong with turning to the side, but it has to be done with good timing in mind. Once the ball is caught for certain, make the call.

That's exactly what I think and I'm still persuaded that wrong call was a bad timing example more that a bad mechanic application. I told this to my clinician and he said:

"Well, maybe you're right but remember: you can make the right call on a strike but if you take away your vision from the play WHILE THE BALL IS ALIVE you can lose what happens and that's what you do when you use that call-style".

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

This is why all the ASA umpires look robotic. There's room for some individuality in officiating.

There's nothing wrong with turning to the side, but it has to be done with good timing in mind. Once the ball is caught for certain, make the call.

Scott, I understand you mean well, but coaches do not discuss umpiring mechanics with me -- so I guarantee you that you wouldn't eat me alive when coaching.

There is nothing robotic about ASA mechanics, if you think that then you are sadly mistaken.
Now, I have worked baseball longer than softball and have been to the Wendelsadt (sp?) school.
Even Harry taght that in lower level ball you shouldn't look away.
The ball is still live and anything can happen
As for eating you alive, if your head is somewhere other than looking at the play, I am not going to give you a moments peace.
Get you head in the game, not looking out to the side where there is nothing to see.
That habit developed many years ago when the scorekeeper was seated off to the right of the umpire.
MLB still does it but that crew has four members, someone had better be looking at what is going on.
Lower level ball is usally 2 man at best. Keep your head in the game instead of trying to look like a big dog

[David B]

Originally posted by scottk_61

There is nothing robotic about ASA mechanics, if you think that then you are sadly mistaken.
Now, I have worked baseball longer than softball and have been to the Wendelsadt (sp?) school.
Even Harry taght that in lower level ball you shouldn't look away.
The ball is still live and anything can happen
As for eating you alive, if your head is somewhere other than looking at the play, I am not going to give you a moments peace.
Get you head in the game, not looking out to the side where there is nothing to see.
That habit developed many years ago when the scorekeeper was seated off to the right of the umpire.
MLB still does it but that crew has four members, someone had better be looking at what is going on.
Lower level ball is usally 2 man at best. Keep your head in the game instead of trying to look like a big dog

Just out of curiosity, I'd like to know what I'm missing.

Been turning the head for most of my umpiring career, now 25+ years and haven't missed a play yet.

Maybe there is something else I've been missing?

Just wondering, if there's something I'm missing I need to correct it.

Thanks
David

[LDUB]

Originally posted by scottk_61

There is nothing robotic about ASA mechanics, if you think that then you are sadly mistaken.
Now, I have worked baseball longer than softball and have been to the Wendelsadt (sp?) school.
Even Harry taght that in lower level ball you shouldn't look away.
The ball is still live and anything can happen
As for eating you alive, if your head is somewhere other than looking at the play, I am not going to give you a moments peace.
Get you head in the game, not looking out to the side where there is nothing to see.
That habit developed many years ago when the scorekeeper was seated off to the right of the umpire.
MLB still does it but that crew has four members, someone had better be looking at what is going on.
Lower level ball is usally 2 man at best. Keep your head in the game instead of trying to look like a big dog

Today I was watching the women's college world series. Looking at the plate umpire, he had the most boreing, generic strike call that I have ever seen. Later I was watching one of the other games. Plate umpire has the exact same boreing strike call as the other umpire (I assume that the same guy did not work the plate in 2 different games). Now I had not been reading this discussion about the strike calls, I noticed on my own. I don't know if those are ASA mechanics, or some other kind, but whatever they are, I agree with Rich that they robotic.

And Scott, are you trying to get tossed out of every game you coach? An umpire turns his head, so you eat him alive? That's a great way to get on the umpire's good side. Sure, it is best to keep your head straight, but what is the big deal? This is not a subject that you should argue with the umpire about.

[Rich]

Originally posted by LDUB

Today I was watching the women's college world series. Looking at the plate umpire, he had the most boreing, generic strike call that I have ever seen. Later I was watching one of the other games. Plate umpire has the exact same boreing strike call as the other umpire (I assume that the same guy did not work the plate in 2 different games). Now I had not been reading this discussion about the strike calls, I noticed on my own. I don't know if those are ASA mechanics, or some other kind, but whatever they are, I agree with Rich that they robotic.

And Scott, are you trying to get tossed out of every game you coach? An umpire turns his head, so you eat him alive? That's a great way to get on the umpire's good side. Sure, it is best to keep your head straight, but what is the big deal? This is not a subject that you should argue with the umpire about.

I work a lot of games. Because I'm in Wisconsin, they are almost all 2-man. I turn to the right for every strike one and strike two. My called strike three mechanic is straight ahead, but that is no coaches business. A coach telling me what umpiring mechanics is -- well ,that coach is looking for an early day.

And ASA mechanics are robotic. I used to call ASA softball and went to some ASA clinics taught at an ASA headquarters of some kind. There we were categorically told that there was only one correct way to signal a strike.

It is no coincidence that ALL the softball umpires look exactly alike, from their stupid navy pants right down to their strike calls. I'm not trying to look like anyone. I've been umpiring a long time and I have my own signals -- I don't need to imitate anyone on TV.

[scottk_61]

[QUOTE

And ASA mechanics are robotic. I used to call ASA softball and went to some ASA clinics taught at an ASA headquarters of some kind. There we were categorically told that there was only one correct way to signal a strike.

It is no coincidence that ALL the softball umpires look exactly alike, from their stupid navy pants right down to their strike calls. I'm not trying to look like anyone. I've been umpiring a long time and I have my own signals -- I don't need to imitate anyone on TV. [/B][/QUOTE]

You obviously havn't paid attention to ASA softball in a while.
We wear heather grey as well as navy blue pants with powder blue or nave jerseys.......for quite a while now.
If you had someone from ASA tell you there is only one way to call a strike then you haven't been taught by the Regional UIC's or been in a national clinic. Yes there is a standard mechanic but so it is the same for baseball.
Everyone is allowed some personality introductions so long as the signal is clear.
Softball umpires do not all look alike as you have said, but it seems that this current crop of baseball umpires is trying to justify why they are all doing it the same way..........hypocricy at its finest.

Remember guys, I have been doing baseball longer than softball. I no longer do D1 and higher as I have but the problem exists in all levels except in MLB.

Weren't you ever taught as one of your first objectives as an umpire to follow the pill?
Can't do that if you are looking away.

I have never been tossed for eating on an umpire for his poor mechanics or rule knowledge. I ump so I know when to quit but I also know exactly where to point out the errors and why they cannot make that call with improper mechanics or positioning.
I don't argue but I have embarressed a few guys one on one. Never do it to the crowd, just the blue.

Hell, I even throw in the old "the hands are part of the bat" thing every once in a while just to shake them up.
If they don't know the rules, they need to get off the field at the level where I help coach.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by scottk_61

We wear heather grey as well as navy blue pants with powder blue or nave jerseys.......for quite a while now.

Did you see the Women's world series on sat.? The umpires were not wearing navy or heather pants, they were black. I thought they were navy at first, but I saw a close up on the umpire and I realized they were black. They were the exact same color as his shoes. Talk about some ugly pants.

[Rich]

Originally posted by scottk_61
[QUOTE

And ASA mechanics are robotic. I used to call ASA softball and went to some ASA clinics taught at an ASA headquarters of some kind. There we were categorically told that there was only one correct way to signal a strike.

It is no coincidence that ALL the softball umpires look exactly alike, from their stupid navy pants right down to their strike calls. I'm not trying to look like anyone. I've been umpiring a long time and I have my own signals -- I don't need to imitate anyone on TV.

You obviously havn't paid attention to ASA softball in a while.
We wear heather grey as well as navy blue pants with powder blue or nave jerseys.......for quite a while now.
If you had someone from ASA tell you there is only one way to call a strike then you haven't been taught by the Regional UIC's or been in a national clinic. Yes there is a standard mechanic but so it is the same for baseball.
Everyone is allowed some personality introductions so long as the signal is clear.
Softball umpires do not all look alike as you have said, but it seems that this current crop of baseball umpires is trying to justify why they are all doing it the same way..........hypocricy at its finest.

Remember guys, I have been doing baseball longer than softball. I no longer do D1 and higher as I have but the problem exists in all levels except in MLB.

Weren't you ever taught as one of your first objectives as an umpire to follow the pill?
Can't do that if you are looking away.

I have never been tossed for eating on an umpire for his poor mechanics or rule knowledge. I ump so I know when to quit but I also know exactly where to point out the errors and why they cannot make that call with improper mechanics or positioning.
I don't argue but I have embarressed a few guys one on one. Never do it to the crowd, just the blue.

Hell, I even throw in the old "the hands are part of the bat" thing every once in a while just to shake them up.
If they don't know the rules, they need to get off the field at the level where I help coach. [/B][/QUOTE]

You read what I said -- I make sure the ball is caught before doing anything. I make sure my timing is good. I've never missed a ball going anywhere in almost 20 years.

As for the hands are part of the bat, why would an umpire stoop to the level of the typical rat? I simply don't understand this. Give an umpire a chance to set a good example for the rest of the rats, and he heads right for the same pile of cheese....

[LDUB]

Originally posted by scottk_61
I have never been tossed for eating on an umpire for his poor mechanics or rule knowledge. I ump so I know when to quit but I also know exactly where to point out the errors and why they cannot make that call with improper mechanics or positioning.
I don't argue but I have embarressed a few guys one on one. Never do it to the crowd, just the blue.

That is all fine and dandy, but there is a difference between challenging an umpires mechanics, and an umpires signals. If an umpire is out of position for a call, or if he does not apply a rule correctly, it is OK to talk to him about it. But when you walk up to the umpire and tell him that his is signaling his strikes wrong, that is a totaly different story. You said that it is OK for umpires to have some personality introductions in their strike calls. When you talk to him about his signals you are insulting his personal way of signaling a strkie. This is his personal preference. You wouldn't go up to an umpire and tell him that he should use a different mask. What mask he wears is his personal choice. These are the kinds of things that you should just leave alone.

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by LDUB


That is all fine and dandy, but there is a difference between challenging an umpires mechanics, and an umpires signals. If an umpire is out of position for a call, or if he does not apply a rule correctly, it is OK to talk to him about it. But when you walk up to the umpire and tell him that his is signaling his strikes wrong, that is a totaly different story. You said that it is OK for umpires to have some personality introductions in their strike calls. When you talk to him about his signals you are insulting his personal way of signaling a strkie. This is his personal preference. You wouldn't go up to an umpire and tell him that he should use a different mask. What mask he wears is his personal choice. These are the kinds of things that you should just leave alone. [/B]

I did say it is ok for an umpire to have some personality in his stike call.
I dont walk up to him and tell him he is doing it wrong, I tell him there is no way he can watch teh play and call a strike looking over in the stands and not miss something.

This is something you guys need to think about,
WHY are you looking off to the side to call a strike?
Are you making sure the scorekeeper understands your call?
Or are you apeing some big dog that you have seen.
What is the purpose of taking your eyes off of the field of play, of course this side look mechanic gives you a great opportunity to look at the lovely baseball moms out there.

Frankly guys, you can add all the personality you want into a strike call AND keep your eyes on the field with no problem. There are hundreds of guys who do it every day.

The point is, it is a bad mechanic to turn your head off to the side while you have a live ball.
Sure you make sure of the pitch and whether you have a tip or foul but what about after?
What about that shootout attmept by the catcher on the runner at third, did the batter interfere? or not?

etc etc etc.

When you turn your head to PERSONALIZE your call, you lose sight of the game.
Granted most of the time there will be no problem but one day it will happen unless you happen to umpire some very uninspired games.

When I know I have an umpire who is going ot look to the side, I will have my players jump and go because he is already behind the play most bangers will go my way. Why, he is hehind the play and 99% won't guess at an out instead they will go with safe.

A bad mechanic by the umpire gives the offense a distincg advantage.

So in effect, you become my extra offensive player.

Think about it guys, why do you do it?
What purpose does it serve?
What advantage or disadvantage do you get from it?
How does it improve your game?
How does it help or hurt the players attempts?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by scottk_61

I did say it is ok for an umpire to have some personality in his stike call.
I dont walk up to him and tell him he is doing it wrong, I tell him there is no way he can watch teh play and call a strike looking over in the stands and not miss something.

This is something you guys need to think about,
WHY are you looking off to the side to call a strike?
Are you making sure the scorekeeper understands your call?
Or are you apeing some big dog that you have seen.
What is the purpose of taking your eyes off of the field of play, of course this side look mechanic gives you a great opportunity to look at the lovely baseball moms out there.

Frankly guys, you can add all the personality you want into a strike call AND keep your eyes on the field with no problem. There are hundreds of guys who do it every day.

The point is, it is a bad mechanic to turn your head off to the side while you have a live ball.
Sure you make sure of the pitch and whether you have a tip or foul but what about after?
What about that shootout attmept by the catcher on the runner at third, did the batter interfere? or not?

etc etc etc.

When you turn your head to PERSONALIZE your call, you lose sight of the game.
Granted most of the time there will be no problem but one day it will happen unless you happen to umpire some very uninspired games.

When I know I have an umpire who is going ot look to the side, I will have my players jump and go because he is already behind the play most bangers will go my way. Why, he is hehind the play and 99% won't guess at an out instead they will go with safe.

A bad mechanic by the umpire gives the offense a distincg advantage.

So in effect, you become my extra offensive player.

Think about it guys, why do you do it?
What purpose does it serve?
What advantage or disadvantage do you get from it?
How does it improve your game?
How does it help or hurt the players attempts?

[/B]

Oh, to put it more simply: There's nothing to be gained and much that could be lost.

But people with bad habits will always try to rationalize their weaknesses.