profanity in fed games

[Rich]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

In my career I know of several umpires (I reached six while deciding whether to join this thread) who lost important games because they ignored a player's cussing that was loud enough for ladies in the stands to hear.

Sh!t is certainly a taboo word. The way to determine what is proscribed: Would you use that word in conversation with a priest after mass?

Several in the thread have offered the "correct" solution: Regardless of who started the conversation, talk between umpire/coach and umpire/player is priviledged. No harm, no foul.

Mr. Fronheiser says he never gets excited when a player loudly cusses ("Sh!t") after he's been called out; after he made an out.

In my games at any level -- and in any association I've ever been involved with -- such language would be instant grounds for dismissal. As I said, some umpire who did not discipline the offender were put on the "don't-call-'em-for-a-game" list after complaints by spectators.

Well, perhaps that's a southern "thing," a Texas thing. Apparently, it's not a Fronheiser thing, and he's been in associtions in perhaps six or seven states.

Too bad. I'm sorry baseball in Wisconsin has dropped to that level.

Rich: Last year you called a very important Little League majors tournament. Eleven-year-old kid is out at first to end the inning. "Sh!t!!," he screams after you call him out.

You say you'd trot out to your position in right field.

I don't believe it.

Where I'm from and where I've lived 11 year olds don't talk that way on the ball field. I was referring to FED games, which for me means "HS Varsity" since I only worked one subvarsity game as a fill-in this season.

I've heard worse coming from players in college games -- you warn college players too?

What does a priest or mass have to do with it? With any of it?

I've not lived in a place where this has been a big deal, except in the minds of OOOs. If I ever move to Texas and am expected to police such behavior, I will. I've never had any problems fitting in at a new location after moving there.

[Carl Childress]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I've had kids yell out "sh*t" after getting thrown out at first base and I've smiled, made the call, and headed to right field between innings. If their coach doesn't want to handle that, I'm certainly not bothering.

I'm an umpire, and I'm not the morality police. Swear at me or get personal with me, and you're done at any level. But I don't get involved with nonsense like this. OOO.

I warn anyone, regardless of the age or level of play, who uses taboo words loud enough for people (especially ladies) to hear in the stands.

Kids in your state don't cuss on the field, you say. That's great! They do in Texas -- without penalty if spectators can't hear and the taboo words aren't directed at me or another umpire.

You said you didn't consider "sh!t" to be profanity. I said it was clearly a taboo word.

And you can tell what language is taboo, I said, by asking yourself: Would I say that in church?

BTW: What the heck is 000? Or OOO? Out-of-order?

[DG]

I been wondering what OOO means also, but hesitant to ask.

[JRutledge]

It means, "Over Officious Official." At least that is the nice definition.

And this is usually reserved for those that go looking for problems like profanity from players not directed at anyone. Or enforcing rules that no one even realized was on the books.

I just do not think it is in your best interest to go looking for problems. If you do not like the language of the players, do not engage them into conversation. Problem solved.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

Taboo language is something you wouldn't say in Church???

Please...you can turn on the TV and hear "Sh*t" on any number of prime time dramas. "A**hole" was on ER the other night. I'm not encouraging them to swear, but I'm not going to melt either if a kid says "Sh*t" when he drops a pop up that costs his team the game.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Taboo language is something you wouldn't say in Church???

Please...you can turn on the TV and hear "Sh*t" on any number of prime time dramas. "A**hole" was on ER the other night. I'm not encouraging them to swear, but I'm not going to melt either if a kid says "Sh*t" when he drops a pop up that costs his team the game.

I guess your attitude reflects the difference between the values in our respective areas. In Texas we don't say "sh!t" in church. Or in the classroom. Some of the movies or TV shows depict language that would merit expulsion in my part of the country.

I'm afraid it's officials -- and teachers, and principals, and parents -- who are partners in the lowering of civility in other parts of the U.S.

BTW: I think you meant there was a "hoe" on ER. Unless the "hole" was in someone's chest.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Carl Childress


I guess your attitude reflects the difference between the values in our respective areas. In Texas we don't say "sh!t" in church. Or in the classroom. Some of the movies or TV shows depict language that would merit expulsion in my part of the country.

I'm afraid it's officials -- and teachers, and principals, and parents -- who are partners in the lowering of civility in other parts of the U.S.

BTW: I think you meant there was a "hoe" on ER. Unless the "hole" was in someone's chest.

That all sounds great, but I lived in Texas for a short period of time. My Father lived there until his death. I had an aunt that raised here two children (my first cousins) in Texas who died in 2001 as well. So I have strong ties to Texas and attended a school in Richardson when I entered High School. I was even saved and Baptised in Texas at 15 years old in a Church in Texas. Let me let you in on something, they cursed at all those places. Of course they did it outside of adults or where they thought adults would not hear them. But it is not my responsiblity to teach life lessons as an official. I can always say what is not appropriate and what I will not tolerate. But it is the parents to teach their children how to act ultimately. Teachers and police, just have to deal with what these kids have been exposed to. Heck, there are parents that never believe the times their children are arrested is actually the fault of their own children. But they blame the teachers and officials for punishing them.

Peace

[David B]

Originally posted by JRutledge

That all sounds great, but I lived in Texas for a short period of time. My Father lived there until his death. I had an aunt that raised here two children (my first cousins) in Texas who died in 2001 as well. So I have strong ties to Texas and attended a school in Richardson when I entered High School. I was even saved and Baptised in Texas at 15 years old in a Church in Texas. Let me let you in on something, they cursed at all those places. Of course they did it outside of adults or where they thought adults would not hear them. But it is not my responsiblity to teach life lessons as an official. I can always say what is not appropriate and what I will not tolerate. But it is the parents to teach their children how to act ultimately. Teachers and police, just have to deal with what these kids have been exposed to. Heck, there are parents that never believe the times their children are arrested is actually the fault of their own children. But they blame the teachers and officials for punishing them.

Peace

You're preaching to the choir as they say, but I also lived in TX and was a youth minister/music minister at many of the churches you talk about.

And as you stated, since they used the words "away from their parents - sources of authority" would tell me they knew the difference, what is accepted by their parents/church etc.,

I've always carried that to the ballfield also. The kids might curse etc., but they will know that I don't accept it and they will not continue etc.,

I don't expect others to do that, its my own personal preference. But, I believe that if I hold the standard high, it might just have a little influence on that young 15 yr old.

Of course, most of the kids know what I do for a living also, so many times they immediately follow their profanity with "I'm sorry blue."

They know what I'm fixing to say.

Thanks and AMEN!

David

[DG]

I don't know anything about Texas, but around here, sh*t, said only loud enough for the umpire and maybe one other player nearby to hear is pardonable. Sh*t said loudly enough for all the fans to hear is an immediate ejection.

[Edited by DG on Jun 2nd, 2004 at 12:20 AM]

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by DG
I don't anything about Texas, but around here, sh*t, said only loud enough for the umpire and maybe one other player nearby to hear is pardonable. Sh*t said loudly enough for all the fans to hear is an immediate ejection.

What you said!