Help Me Please

[harmbu]

Could someone please give me a rule reference that I can use to show someone that THE HANDS ARE NOT PART OF THE BAT!!!!!!? I saw this called in a 9-10 year old game this evening. The batter pulled away from an inside pitch and was hit on the hand. Both umpires called a foul ball and gave the quote that always makes me cringe, "The hand is part of the bat." The league president went as far as explaining it to the parents by saying "the ARM is part of the bat." The very next half inning, a batter took a full swing at the pitch that hit him in the ribs. You guessed it. He was awarded first base. At one point, the umpire said, "It won't do any good to argue with me, because I know the rules." I do understand that this was just a game of young kids, but how can they be taught the game when the people calling the game have no idea what the rules are?

I would like both FED and OBR references.

Thanks

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by harmbu
I do understand that this was just a game of young kids, but how can they be taught the game when the people calling the game have no idea what the rules are?

Unfortunately, it is the natural order of things. Young kids get ignorant umpires. If the umpires really did know the rules accurately, they'd be working teenagers, not 9 yearolds.

As the kids get older and better, so do the umpires, generally.

Here's Jim Booth's attempt to dispel this particular urban umpire legend:

The hands are part of a person's body. If a pitch hits the batter's hands the ball is dead; if he swung at the pitch, a strike is called (NOT a foul). If he was avoiding the pitch, he is awarded first base.

Rules: 2.00 PERSON, TOUCH, STRIKE (e) and 6.05(f)

Hope it helps.

[jicecone]

I don't believe your going to find a reference that states it like that and that is the only way people understand. Sometimes it is tough to get someone to read something written outside the rule book and believe it. "That is not the Rulebook", the will say. Just be prepared to give them plenty of references and internet sites to visit. Especially the list of myths about baseball.

I had an adamant coach one time insist that the hands were part of the bat. I walked over and picked up a bat and told him that when he could show me where the pair of hands that are attached to that bat were, I would start calling it his way. He laughed, but I got his attention and was able to explain real baseball rules vs myths to him.

Instead of looking for where it says they are NOT part of the bat. Ask these people to show you were it says they ARE.

Good Luck

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by harmbu
Could someone please give me a rule reference that I can use to show someone that THE HANDS ARE NOT PART OF THE BAT!!!!!!? I saw this called in a 9-10 year old game this evening. The batter pulled away from an inside pitch and was hit on the hand. Both umpires called a foul ball and gave the quote that always makes me cringe, "The hand is part of the bat." The league president went as far as explaining it to the parents by saying "the ARM is part of the bat." The very next half inning, a batter took a full swing at the pitch that hit him in the ribs. You guessed it. He was awarded first base. At one point, the umpire said, "It won't do any good to argue with me, because I know the rules." I do understand that this was just a game of young kids, but how can they be taught the game when the people calling the game have no idea what the rules are?

I would like both FED and OBR references.

Thanks

A better way to approach this is to ask the umpire to show you a reference that states the hands are part of the bat. Use the references Dave Hensley borrowed from Jim Booth. And read Peter Osborne's two-part series on that subject, Part I of which appeared today. You have to be a subscriber. Try us. If you don't think you're getting your money's worth, we'll give it all back.

[Carl Childress]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Childress

Originally posted by harmbu
Could someone please give me a rule reference that I can use to show someone that THE HANDS ARE NOT PART OF THE BAT!!!!!!? I saw this called in a 9-10 year old game this evening. The batter pulled away from an inside pitch and was hit on the hand. Both umpires called a foul ball and gave the quote that always makes me cringe, "The hand is part of the bat." The league president went as far as explaining it to the parents by saying "the ARM is part of the bat." The very next half inning, a batter took a full swing at the pitch that hit him in the ribs. You guessed it. He was awarded first base. At one point, the umpire said, "It won't do any good to argue with me, because I know the rules." I do understand that this was just a game of young kids, but how can they be taught the game when the people calling the game have no idea what the rules are?

I would like both FED and OBR references.

Thanks

A better way to approach this is to ask the umpire to show you a reference that states the hands are part of the bat.

Or use the citations Dave Hensley borrowed from Jim Booth.

Or read Peter Osborne's two-part series on this subject, Part I http://baseball.officiating.com/x/article/3778 of which appeared today (21 May). You have to be a subscriber. Try us. If you don't think you're getting your money's worth, we'll give it all back.