Umpire wrong. How to handle?

[Rich]

Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by warriordad

Single umpire. Two outs. Runners at 1st and 2nd. Batter stikes out, but catcher misses the ball. Runner starts running to 1st, but is called out by the umpire before the catcher has a chance to throw the ball. When questioned, the umpire states that the batter is out if 1st is occupied even with two outs.

My question is this. Do I attempt to "educate" this umpire by giving him a copy of the rule that applies?

First off does this league have protest procedures?

The simple answer is: Protest the ruling: No need to educate, go ballistic,etc. If there are no protest procdures you are out of luck.

Now I will put on my "Shirlock Holmes" hat and surmize what I think happened without being there.

No attempt was made to argue the call since the ump had already ejected ALL of the parents from BOTH teams (they had to watch the rest of the game from the parking lot). The coaches and scorekeepers where the only ones allowed to stay

Sounds like this was a rough game and the umpire simply wanted to get the game over with. He probably thought that the coach didn't know the rule, and had enough so he wanted to go home.

My next question is this.

Umpires cannot EJ spectators. They can ask for their removal, but we don't EJ fans. If it was that bad, he should have simply stopped the game and went home.

Bottom line - Sounds like there is more to the story than "meets the eye".

Pete Booth

I'm sick of hearing that umpires cannot eject fans. It's a semantics argument, like saying that the play at first base isn't a force out or that players cannot call time out, they can only request time.

You can most certainly eject spectators. You go to game management and say, "If (spectator) isn't removed, we aren't continuing the game." When game management removes the spectator, who really did the ejecting? The umpire -- the one who pressed the issue.

It's as bad as home management that won't cancel a game with bad weather and unplayable conditions and forces you do do it after receiving the lineup cards to make you look like the bad guy.

[David B]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Originally posted by warriordad

I'm sick of hearing that umpires cannot eject fans. It's a semantics argument, like saying that the play at first base isn't a force out or that players cannot call time out, they can only request time.

You can most certainly eject spectators. You go to game management and say, "If (spectator) isn't removed, we aren't continuing the game." When game management removes the spectator, who really did the ejecting? The umpire -- the one who pressed the issue.

It's as bad as home management that won't cancel a game with bad weather and unplayable conditions and forces you do do it after receiving the lineup cards to make you look like the bad guy.

Well a better phrase might be

"Good umpires don't eject fan/spectators."

I've seen umpires make a big deal out of fans etc., but its usually because the umpire either is horrible and deserves the fans wrath, or he just doesn't have the experience to block out the masses.

The only time a fan should be delt with would be a safety issue. In most all of our leagues there is an administrator that you can call on during any game to remove a fan (say that threatened a coach/player/ or umpire)

When I first started umpiring (l oo oooo ng time ago) one of my mentors had a saying

"they paid their doller, let em holler."

I've always remembered that. I've been in some dicey situations with fans involved etc, but I've never considered even the remote possibility of removing the fans.

Their ignoranace of the rules keeps me going, and laughing. Even in the midst of a big stressful game, laughing at the fans comments is a great relief.

Life goes on in spite of baseball.

Thanks
David

[Rich]

Originally posted by David B

Well a better phrase might be

"Good umpires don't eject fan/spectators."

I've seen umpires make a big deal out of fans etc., but its usually because the umpire either is horrible and deserves the fans wrath, or he just doesn't have the experience to block out the masses.

The only time a fan should be delt with would be a safety issue. In most all of our leagues there is an administrator that you can call on during any game to remove a fan (say that threatened a coach/player/ or umpire)

When I first started umpiring (l oo oooo ng time ago) one of my mentors had a saying

"they paid their doller, let em holler."

I've always remembered that. I've been in some dicey situations with fans involved etc, but I've never considered even the remote possibility of removing the fans.

Their ignoranace of the rules keeps me going, and laughing. Even in the midst of a big stressful game, laughing at the fans comments is a great relief.

Life goes on in spite of baseball.

Thanks
David

I completely agree. I've only ever had one fan removed in 15+ years and he was threatening us loudly during play (it was a basketball game).

[Baseball_North]

I am split on this issue of ejecting spectators.... I have never ejected a parent or spectator from a game in my umpiring career....

I considered it once though.... I was umpiring a PeeWee game (13-14 yr olds).. and I was used to doing older games... I was assigned this game because it was a play-off game or something....

And I realized that my strike zone was not great, as I was used to my batters having bigger zones. The visiting team parents were ALL OVER ME... for the whole game. I would clean the plate and they would say "NOW MAYBE YOU CAN SEE IT!!!" and they would say something after almost every pitch.... but I just kept my cool and went on and called the game....

After the game, they were chirping at me on my way to the parking lot... and I just left and went to my car... I did have one comment for a fan though after the game... I won't disclose this though...

Also, in another game where I had to eject a coach, I had a parent in a motorized wheelchair come up to me after the game saying "I OTTA RUN YOU OVER!!!"... it was kind of humourous thinking back, but she was 100% serious.

[jxt127]

On a serious side several years ago we had an incident where the fans where extremely abusive (verbal) to the 15 year ump who ended up leaving the park in tears. Although no one was ejected the team was later kicked out of the league.

I usually don't have a clue, or care, what anyone outside the fence has to say, not even friends trying to say Hi when I was at a tournament in another city. However last summer I am PU for a senior girls game. These games have a substantial spectator turn out compared to the mixed league. The moms all sit in lawn chairs behind the backstop. One makes a rather personal comment to me as the pitcher starts her motion. The pitcher balks (not called) as everyone starts laughing. Now for my own future well being and life expectancy this must be addressed! "Madam one more comment like that and my wife will have to attend all the games and none of us want that do we!"

[mcrowder]

A 15-year umpire left the field in tears? Man, I hope you meant 15-year OLD umpire.

That said - I would never eject a fan for abusing me. I might for abusing players though. Hasn't happened yet.

[jxt127]

Yes I meant that the umpire was a 15 years old young lady. While the adults can deal with a lot from fans in no way should our youth umpires have to tolerate constant verbal abuse from the stands.

[Edited by jxt127 on May 21st, 2004 at 04:00 PM]

[jumpmaster]

I have ejected one fan in my short career. My partner was a 3rd year, talented umpire who is built like an ox. He was a fast tracker. I was a first year umpire.

We were working in podunk arkansas in a conference game between the 2 cellar dwellars and a fan was sitting immediately behind the plate making comments directed at my partner. (I was the BU). I couldn't hear these comments but I could tell something was throwing him off. Between innings I went to him to ask what was going on and he told me that the knucklehead behind the fence was really getting him rattled. So I, being the cocky young paratrooper that I am, baited the guy the next inning. Close call he didn't like. I whirled and said "YOU...LEAVE...NOW". The guy left, after I threatened to forfiet the game.

What I learned was get the administrator or the coach to handle this, and if he won't do it. Dump the coach.

[quiggley94]

as far as correcting umpires: a singel upmire is the most vulabale since he has no on feild support this leads to mistakes. my advice UIC or leauge rep make a comment and/or protest it. It is a rule calling vs. judgement. most single umpires make a call then rember the rule but to maintain control wont change their rulings.

as for ejecting fan/spectator: it depends on leauge rules though tecnicaly an umpire can eject a fan for unsportsman like conduct. in my leauge the ejection of both sides of fans would have ended the game due to the fact that for each fan ejected requires a coach/manager ejection also. i have given warnings to coaches about spectator comment, not about me or my calles but directed toward the opposing team.
other wise most comments are ignored unless personal insults from coaches or the use of foul language.

[jxt127]

I guess I could have ejected the almost-streaker we had last year. Unauthorized and improperly uniformed person on the playing field.