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Old Tue May 11, 2004, 11:13pm
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Playing under Dizzy Dean Rules, Minor League (9-10)

Rules specify that runner cannot leave the base until the pitch has crossed the plate.

When is the runner "frozen" on the base?
Is it when the pitcher has the ball while on the rubber?
Is it when the runner ceases his advancement to the next base?
Is when the runner finally tires of tantalizing (by dancing off the base) the defensive players and returns to the base?
Is it when the runner is touching the base at the same time that the pitcher is on the rubber with the ball?
If the pitcher is on the rubber with the ball AND the runner has a lead but is not attempting to advance, does the runner have to go back to the base?

A related issue:
R3 when BR walks. The BR rounds first base and runs to second. How can defense stop the runner at first without giving R3 an easy attempt to steal home?
Must the BR stop at first if the pitcher has the ball on the rubber? (Dizzy Dean rules do not address this, although I have seen LL interpretations that the BR can still advance)
If the pitcher throws a pitch while the BR is between first and second, is the BR out for leaving the base before the pitch crosses the plate? And what are the criteria for a legal pitch? I understand that the catcher has to be ready, but what about the batter and umpire? And if the umpire isn't ready, why is the ball still live?

I have tried to sort this out, but haven't found much help.
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Old Wed May 12, 2004, 12:40am
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There was a post similar to this not too long ago. I looked for it but I dont' see it. I think we said it was similar to the look back rule in softball.

Quote:
Originally posted by tibia56
Playing under Dizzy Dean Rules, Minor League (9-10)

Ru
R3 when BR walks. The BR rounds first base and runs to second. How can defense stop the runner at first without giving R3 an easy attempt to steal home?
There is no way to stop it, unless the kids can make the throws, that is why the runner does it.

Quote:
Originally posted by tibia56

Must the BR stop at first if the pitcher has the ball on the rubber? (Dizzy Dean rules do not address this, although I have seen LL interpretations that the BR can still advance)
I would say if he keeps running right through first, and on to second it is legal. If he stops at first he must stay there.

Quote:
Originally posted by tibia56
If the pitcher throws a pitch while the BR is between first and second, is the BR out for leaving the base before the pitch crosses the plate?
This sounds like a quick pitch to me, which would be a balk.

Quote:
Originally posted by tibia56
And what are the criteria for a legal pitch? I understand that the catcher has to be ready, but what about the batter and umpire? And if the umpire isn't ready, why is the ball still live?
The umpire should always be "ready". Just because he is not in his pitch calling stance does not mean he is not ready. He is observing other actions. In order for the pitch to be legal, both the catcher and the batter must be in their boxes.

In youth ball with no lead offs, the ball is not dead, but it is not live in the sense that it would be if we were playing on a full size diamond (hope that makes sense). The ball is live, the pitcher can throw a pitch, or balk. The ball has to be live for a pitch to occur.

I'm not a master on Dizzy Dean rules, so don't hold me to these answers.
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Old Thu May 13, 2004, 08:28am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tibia56
Playing under Dizzy Dean Rules, Minor League (9-10)

Rules specify that runner cannot leave the base until the pitch has crossed the plate.

When is the runner "frozen" on the base?
Is it when the pitcher has the ball while on the rubber?

No. Pitcher on rubber catcher and batter in box.

Is it when the runner ceases his advancement to the next base?

With above description.

Is when the runner finally tires of tantalizing (by dancing off the base) the defensive players and returns to the base? I officiate alot of youth ball and I get tired seeing what you are describing. As an official, when I see it getting out of hand, I call time myself and clean off the plate.

Is it when the runner is touching the base at the same time that the pitcher is on the rubber with the ball? No. Ball is still live and runner can still take off when catcher and batter is not in box.

If the pitcher is on the rubber with the ball AND the runner has a lead but is not attempting to advance, does the runner have to go back to the base?

Not unless the catcher and batter is in the box. Pitcher should not be on the rubber if catcher and batter is not ready. The only reason this is done is the coach/pitcher thinks the runner cannot go if pitcher is on the rubber, which is not the case.

A related issue:
R3 when BR walks. The BR rounds first base and runs to second. How can defense stop the runner at first without giving R3 an easy attempt to steal home?

As a coach, this is what I do. As the BR is trotting down to 1st base, I have my catcher throw the ball to F3 who will then stand in the base path with the ball. I dare R1 to step off or R3 to steal home. The runner may steal on the next pitch, but other things can happen with the next pitch and batters that can prevent that run from scoring.

Must the BR stop at first if the pitcher has the ball on the rubber? (Dizzy Dean rules do not address this, although I have seen LL interpretations that the BR can still advance)
If the pitcher throws a pitch while the BR is between first and second, is the BR out for leaving the base before the pitch crosses the plate?

Its been a while since I called Dizzy Dean, but I believe its an appeal play. Runner would be called out on appeal. In lil league the runner goes back.(I dislike that rule IMO)

And what are the criteria for a legal pitch? I understand that the catcher has to be ready, but what about the batter and umpire?

The umpire should always be ready.

And if the umpire isn't ready, why is the ball still live?

The ball is still live because it hasn't been made dead.



I have tried to sort this out, but haven't found much help.
[Edited by thumpferee on May 13th, 2004 at 11:20 AM]
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Old Thu May 13, 2004, 08:29am
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How do I use the quote like you did LDUB? hmmm
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