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Thu Oct 09, 2003, 02:07pm
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From the NY Post:
"'Procedurally, I didn't handle it 100 percent right,' McClelland told The Post in an exclusive interview in the umpires' room in The Stadium. "But I'm sure it hit the pole." When asked if McClelland saw if the ball hit a fan's glove and not the foul pole, the veteran ump was adamant that he saw the ball hit the pole. Television replays showed that it hit a fan's glove and dropped on to the field." Also in the article, McClelland confirms he "overruled" Hernandez before conferring with him, and after signalling "homerun" spoke with the other umpires. Did he get the call right? Well, yes and no. He ruled a homerun on his mistaken belief the ball hit the pole. This time, no big deal. But next time? What happens the next time when he ignores 9.02(c) in his attempt to "get the call right" but this time his mistaken belief results in the wrong call? This "get the call right at any expense" movement by Alderson may create warm and fuzzies in the short term. But a major sh#t house is just a call away. Instead of defending his actions, McClelland should be doing a lot of soul searching today and thanking his guardian angel that his mistake didn't matter, this time.
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GB 
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Thu Oct 09, 2003, 03:28pm
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If the ball had gone over the fence 40 feet into fair territory, but Hernandez ruled it foul, would you have a problem with McClelland overruling him there?
Before McClelland goes thanking himself, I think we all should thank him for busting his tail and working to become someone who is widely regarded as the best in the business. Get the call right. Period.
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Thu Oct 09, 2003, 03:59pm
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If the ball had gone over the fence 40 feet into fair territory, but Hernandez ruled it foul, would you have a problem with McClelland overruling him there
YES! Now if the manager came out, and asked Angel to get help on the call, McClelland provided information to Angel, and Angel reversed his call, all would be good with the world. That's not what happened. Right or wrong, Angel got steamrolled.
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Thu Oct 09, 2003, 05:05pm
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...Not at the expense of the game...
**I ALSO PLACED THIS REPLY IN THE 'JEFFEREY MAIER' THREAD**
Sorry guys, but I've done it. I've just flat-out overruled my partner and slept well afterwards. I have a real problem with people (the rulebook) using terms like NEVER, ALWAYS, and MUST. Any number of things can happen in a game involving 12+ individuals on the field at the same time, and alot of things are beyond the realm of 'what-if's'. In my situation, a ball hit into the night deep to right was 'clearly over the fence' according to my partner on the bases, who went out on the hit, but to the rest of us on the field, it obviously short-hopped the fence, and came to rest on the warning track. I'm not waiting for him to formally ask me in private whether or not I feel that the ball was over the fence- rulebook-be-damned! For the vast majority of instances where appeals to partners are required, of course it should be requested! I'm not saying that I agree with correcting a partner- " 'safe'. 'No, BOB, he was out!'". But I do believe that if a person interferes with the game, be it a batter, runner, fielder, or OFFICIAL, it is the responsibility of the officials to recify the situation. GET IT RIGHT, not just RIGHT NOW. Bainer.
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"I am a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class...Especially since I rule!"
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Thu Oct 09, 2003, 05:41pm
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Re: ...Not at the expense of the game...
Quote:
The point that is being made is that there is both time AND a process to follow in getting the call "ultimately correct" in such cases. You are right that a manifestly wrong call MUST be corrected, wherever possible, and that it is up to the crew to correct it. What you need to embrace is the proper process for achieving that result. In the case you outlined, the proper process would be to simply to tell your partner what you saw. If he agrees he may change his call. If he doesn't agree then the crew chief may decide - see OBR 9.04(c). Either way you just DON'T OVERRULE a fellow official. That is the process and it is way more important than anything except the Game itself. Officials require due process to function. Without that you have anarchy, and therefore no real role for impartial arbiters to play. Hope this helps Cheers
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Warren Willson
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Thu Oct 09, 2003, 07:15pm
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Originally posted by GarthB
From the NY Post: "'Procedurally, I didn't handle it 100 percent right,' McClelland told The Post in an exclusive interview in the umpires' room in The Stadium. "But I'm sure it hit the pole." This "get the call right at any expense" movement by Alderson may create warm and fuzzies in the short term. But a major sh#t house is just a call away. Instead of defending his actions, McClelland should be doing a lot of soul searching today and thanking his guardian angel that his mistake didn't matter, this time. Garth IMO, plays like last night should be for INSTANT REPLAY. It's time for baseball to get out of the dark ages and use current technology. All other major sports use it. The NFL, NBA and National Hockey League. Is it Perfect? NO but what is. If replay were used for last night's game, we wouldn't have to worry about this overtuning your partner nonsense and what it means for the future of umpiring. We have already had way to many BLOWN calls for important games. It's time replay were used. For those traditionalists out there, traditionalism went out when baseball changed the dimension of the pitcher's mound, The DH, interleague play and the various divisions instead of just American vs. National. Instant replay wouldn't slow the game down any more than it already is. In fact it would speed things up. Take last night's game for example where Replay CLEARLY showed the outcome. Pete Booth
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Peter M. Booth
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Thu Oct 09, 2003, 10:18pm
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The problem with overruling immediately is that by doing so the overruler is making the assumption that they have really seen what they think they have. As in this case, we all know that is not always true. ("Fan's glove? What fan's glove.")
Let's say umpire A, whose call it is, makes a call. Umpire B sees something different. By that fact, umpire B has just gain some additional knowledge over umpire A. The additional knowledge he has gained is not who is right or wrong, but is that two trained officials have conflicting opinions. Umpire A obviously does not know that his partner disagrees with him. However, umpire B does not have definitive knowledge that his perception is any better than umpire A's. If umpire B immediately overrules, he has then let it be known that even knowing additional facts beyound what umpire A knows, he is still too egotistical and stupid to do what is right. In our umpiring association, we call them "guys that used to umpire with us."
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Dan
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Fri Oct 10, 2003, 10:14am
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I'm sorry for saying this, but I would've much preferred the ball being 6 inches foul. Then everyone would understand why an umpire should never overrule another umpire's decision unless that umpire seeks help. How anyone can be 100% sure from 300 feet away when an umpire 100 feet away makes a call is beyond me. Get together, talk it over with U1, U9, and U2 and make a decision. The ball's dead, it's always going to be dead, what's the hurry?
McClelland got extremely lucky, IMO. If he had been WRONG, the calls for his job would be all over the place. Can't wait until next season when the amateur coaches think the plate umpire has a God-given right to overrule anything the base umpire calls. Rich
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Fri Oct 10, 2003, 03:14pm
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Quote:
They already think that. (g) How many times have I heard it especially in kids ball, can't you ask the other umpire. My response usually is "why, I'm watching the play, he's watching other things he's responsible for." Some things will never change. Thanks David
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Sat Oct 11, 2003, 11:22am
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Agree with getting the call right, but look professional in doing it. If your partner makes a call, and you clearly see that it is the wrong call get together, confer with crew members, and then announce the final call.
DO NOT GO CHANGING CALLS(except over turning an out of bounds call in basketball) without confering with your partner(s) first. I did this NO NO a couple of years ago in baseball game, and after that happened, the whole rest of the game went down hill from there. NEVER GO TO A CONVERSATION UNINVITED!!!!!!!!!!!! ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE BEING ASKED FOR INFORMATION FIRST, BEFORE GOING AND CHANGING A PARTNER(S) CALL!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT LOOKS MORE PROFESSIONAL THAT WAY.
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