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-   -   Unreported/Illegal Substitute (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/102747-unreported-illegal-substitute.html)

thumpferee Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:32am
Not to beat a dead horse, but...

IMO
Davis re-entered and still maintains his spot in the BO. He would not be illegal until he batted in Howard's spot in the BO. Lewis is the illegal sub on defense based on C above.

In the OP, Davis entered for Howard but at the end says he entered for Lewis.

The more I read it the more I get :confused:

umpjim Sat Jun 17, 2017 01:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1007017)
Not to beat a dead horse, but...

IMO
Davis re-entered and still maintains his spot in the BO. He would not be illegal until he batted in Howard's spot in the BO. Lewis is the illegal sub on defense based on C above.

In the OP, Davis entered for Howard but at the end the HCsays he entered for Lewis.

The more I read it the more I get :confused:
The HC was probably confused but at that point you have two players in the same line up spot in the game. One has been legally accepted in the previous half inning, Lewis. Since he was not replaced by anybody he is still in the game. Davis has re-entered in the wrong batting order position, Howard's. Davis is the illegal sub

thumpferee Sat Jun 17, 2017 02:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1006982)
NFHS Rules (but would also like NCAA and OBR ruling):

Situation: Davis (playing F3) is batting in the 4th spot in the lineup. Howard (playing F9) is batting in the 8th spot. The Visitor's HC notifies the PU that Lewis is batting for Davis when Davis's spot in the lineup comes up to bat in the top of the 3rd inning. The top of the 3rd inning ends and Lewis remains in the game for Davis at F3 and Davis takes Howard's position at F9. After one pitch in the bottom of the 3rd inning the Home HC informs the PU that Davis has taken Lewis's position at F9.

RULING: What say you?

MTD, Sr.
Where does it say he was accepted?

If so, the PU should not have accepted the substitution!

I'm assuming the Home HC in the OP is meant to mean VHC. At which point, C would apply.

Is there a CB play? Where is MTD?:mad:

bob jenkins Sat Jun 17, 2017 03:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1007015)
Wouldn't "C" apply here? Seems like a perfect example for the OP.
C is when the DH enters on defense and the player for whom the DH is hitting remains on defense. That's not applicable to the OP.

umpjim Sat Jun 17, 2017 03:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1007021)
Where does it say he was accepted?

If so, the PU should not have accepted the substitution!

I'm assuming the Home HC in the OP is meant to mean VHC. At which point, C would apply.

Is there a CB play? Where is MTD?:mad:

The question is what "when" means in the OP. In the context of the OP the VC (visiting team coach) announced Lewis for Davis "when" (at the moment of Davis' time at bat) Davis was due up. Lewis was in the game, batted in the T3 and started to play defense in the B3. The HC (home coach) noticed a sub for Howard in RF. How he described it doesn't matter because you are now aware of Davis re entry into the wrong batting order slot. That's an illegal sub. If you don't read the OP that way then @MTD, sr. Needs to clear it up for us.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1006998)
Disagree -- lewis pinch hit for Davis and remained in the game. So when Davis re-entered and Howard came out, Davis re-entered in the wrong spot.

From (an older version of) the rules book:

2-36-3 ART. 3 . . . An illegal substitute is:
a. a player who enters or re-enters the game without eligibility to do so, or
b. a player who re-enters the game in the wrong position in the batting order, or
c. a player who enters the game on defense while the player for whom he is batting is also on defense, or
d. when the player for whom the DH is batting enters the game as a batter or runner in a different position in the batting order, or
e. a player who violates the courtesy runner rule.

Mark, Jr., and I agree with you.

MTD, Sr.

umpjim Mon Jun 26, 2017 08:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1007293)
Mark, Jr., and I agree with you.

MTD, Sr.
Who disagreed with you that engendered the OP? Which, by the way, engendered much confusion because of it's wording.


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