LL Play- Runner at risk after a walk

[lpneck]

Here is play 2. The situation is real, but the play did not happen, I would just love to know the correct ruling if we had tried it.

LL Tournament rules. Top of the 6th inning with the home team leading 1-0. 2 outs and no one on base. We are the visiting team down to our last out. The home team has not met MPR, and decides to intentionally walk the next 4 hitters to allow a run to score to make sure they bat in the bottom of the 6th so they can get subs in.

What if the visiting team had tried this to steal a 2nd run? (With the opportunity to set it up during an offensive conference because of a rare situation where they knew they were going to receive a bases loaded walk) After the walk, R3 jogs slowly towards home. In the meantime R2 sprints towards 3rd and rounds it. As he comes up on R3, both players sprint to the plate.

*IF* the defense defended the play, and tagged R2 before R3 crosses home plate, what is the ruling? R2 is obviously out, but what about R3, who was forced in on the walk? Does his run score anyway?

In real life we didn't do anything crazy, the next batter made an out and the top half of the inning ended 1-1. The home team scored a run in the bottom of the 6th and won the game.

Thank you!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Here is play 2. The situation is real, but the play did not happen, I would just love to know the correct ruling if we had tried it.

LL Tournament rules. Top of the 6th inning with the home team leading 1-0. 2 outs and no one on base. We are the visiting team down to our last out. The home team has not met MPR, and decides to intentionally walk the next 4 hitters to allow a run to score to make sure they bat in the bottom of the 6th so they can get subs in.

What if the visiting team had tried this to steal a 2nd run? (With the opportunity to set it up during an offensive conference because of a rare situation where they knew they were going to receive a bases loaded walk) After the walk, R3 jogs slowly towards home. In the meantime R2 sprints towards 3rd and rounds it. As he comes up on R3, both players sprint to the plate.

*IF* the defense defended the play, and tagged R2 before R3 crosses home plate, what is the ruling? R2 is obviously out, but what about R3, who was forced in on the walk? Does his run score anyway?

In real life we didn't do anything crazy, the next batter made an out and the top half of the inning ended 1-1. The home team scored a run in the bottom of the 6th and won the game.

Thank you!

Yes the run scores anyway.

This is the ruling:

Play. Two out, bases full, batter walks but runner from second
is overzealous and runs past third base toward home and is
tagged out on a throw by the catcher. Even though two are out,
the run would score on the theory that the run was forced home
by the base on balls and that all the runners needed to do was
proceed and touch the next base.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by lpneck

The home team has not met MPR, and decides to intentionally walk the next 4 hitters to allow a run to score to make sure they bat in the bottom of the 6th so they can get subs in.

You should have protested this. Falls under the tournament travesty clause.

[lpneck]

I contemplated it. The whole situation was very strange. It was the 11-year-old state championship game. The game was a fantastic pitcher's duel- the other team scored a run in the bottom of the 1st, and then we didn't allow a runner the rest of the game (until the B6.) They didn't even get all the way through their lineup twice in the first 5 innings, and got caught on MPR.

I wasn't even sure they would do anything about it, because the penalty is a 2-game suspension for the manager, and this was the final game. After they got the first 2 outs, their manager went out to talk to the pitcher (who was obviously dominating), and I knew they were going to let us score. They "unintentionally" intentionally walked the next hitter.

Then once he was on first, they threw a purposeful wild pitch. Our runner went to 2nd. At that point I told him to stay there. They threw another wild pitch, and then threw the ball into CF on purpose- I kept telling our runner to stay there.

At that point I thought about protesting under the travesty clause, but I felt the other team would have at least gotten some kind of warning before they just declared the game a forfeit. Then they would have played straight up, gotten an out, and we end up losing 1-0. I don't think the MPR violation would have turned into a forfeit victory, and quite honestly, I wouldn't have wanted to win a state championship by forfeit anyway.

Because I knew they were going to let us score, I had the runner stay at 2nd because I wanted to get a chance to hit with the bases loaded and the middle of our lineup at the plate with a chance to drive in the go-ahead runs (and make their pitcher throw 16 additional pitches.)

It wasn't until after the game was over and I was replaying everything that we talked about "what if we had tried to steal the run by having R2 come up on R3 after the bases loaded walk?" Their defense was under the impression of "don't get an out," so it might have worked.

It was the craziest baseball game I have ever been a part of.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by lpneck

I contemplated it. The whole situation was very strange. It was the 11-year-old state championship game. The game was a fantastic pitcher's duel- the other team scored a run in the bottom of the 1st, and then we didn't allow a runner the rest of the game (until the B6.) They didn't even get all the way through their lineup twice in the first 5 innings, and got caught on MPR.

I wasn't even sure they would do anything about it, because the penalty is a 2-game suspension for the manager, and this was the final game. After they got the first 2 outs, their manager went out to talk to the pitcher (who was obviously dominating), and I knew they were going to let us score. They "unintentionally" intentionally walked the next hitter.

Then once he was on first, they threw a purposeful wild pitch. Our runner went to 2nd. At that point I told him to stay there. They threw another wild pitch, and then threw the ball into CF on purpose- I kept telling our runner to stay there.

At that point I thought about protesting under the travesty clause, but I felt the other team would have at least gotten some kind of warning before they just declared the game a forfeit. Then they would have played straight up, gotten an out, and we end up losing 1-0. I don't think the MPR violation would have turned into a forfeit victory, and quite honestly, I wouldn't have wanted to win a state championship by forfeit anyway.

Because I knew they were going to let us score, I had the runner stay at 2nd because I wanted to get a chance to hit with the bases loaded and the middle of our lineup at the plate with a chance to drive in the go-ahead runs (and make their pitcher throw 16 additional pitches.)

It wasn't until after the game was over and I was replaying everything that we talked about "what if we had tried to steal the run by having R2 come up on R3 after the bases loaded walk?" Their defense was under the impression of "don't get an out," so it might have worked.

It was the craziest baseball game I have ever been a part of.

Some other people, such as the umpires and TD should have been contemplating at least a warning. While normal failure to get MPR would not be a forfeit, the travesty clause allows WP to consider a forfeit.

[bwburke94]

There's precedent of forfeits under MPR, but it's not the "right" way to win a game.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

There's precedent of forfeits under MPR, but it's not the "right" way to win a game.

WILLFUL failure to get MPR is also not the "right" way to win a game. In a tight game a coach may decide to leave his slugger in and take chances of getting MPR later. Most MPR failures are due to innocent mistakes but some are due to a knowing coach decision. Which is why forfeit is possible if WP thinks the circumstance is egregious.