To umpires (advice)

[Mattinglyfan]

I am not the easiest guy to get along with on the field. I coach with the same intensity as a played. I am always fired up and vocal to me players. Sometimes that carries over to the umpires regarding calls. If I think there is a bad call I will let the umpire know. By the way my players are not allowed to talk, or show up the umpires. If the do they sit.
We were involved in a very tight game a few weeks ago, and a particular umpire made three very questionable calls that were not in our favor. I let him know that I didn't agree each of them. Needless to say we didn't get along after that. However, after each play, after each game I believe everything disagreement and argument should stay on the field, and be dropped.
Yesterday that same umpire called our game. I could tell right off the bat at the plate meeting that he already had an attitude toward me. So I kept my mouth shut all game until the sixth inning. We were on defense and there was a great play in the hole, SS made a great play and made a low through to 1B, and the player dug it out clearly in time. The runner was called safe. I very respectfully called time, and started walking to the field. The field umpire pointed at me as I approached the line and yelled "Don't even bother." I indicted, again very respectfully that I just wanted an explaination. He said one more word I was out of here. Again this was the first thing that I said the whole game. I felt that he was still holding a grudge toward me from the last game. I believe as a mahager that I have a right to an explanation why he thought the runner was safe. Was the throw late, did the 1baseman pull his foot, was there no control?
Any suggestions how I might handle this situation with this umpire in the future?

[cmckenna]

First off.... It's a judgement call. He saw something there that made him call the runner safe.

Second, you state that you are very vocal and if you think a call is bad you will let the ump know... Can the ump let you know if you made a bad coaching decision???

Whatever the ump saw, he saw. He doesn't need to explain anything to you.

[jicecone]

"Any suggestions how I might handle this situation with this umpire in the future?'

Let it go! Is it really that important that you know why? The official made a call you didn't like. Right or wrong, it's not going to get changed. So wether you realize it or not, or even if your congenial about it, the message you are sending is that your going to dispute the call.

Thats the same message your sending to your players. If you think that doing what I say and not what I do, works in today's world, you need some good coaching lessons.

Learn to deal with the part of the game you cannot control and you will be a much better coach. Does anyone yell at you each time you make a wrong coaching decision? Sometimes it just happens. Officials are human beings just like you. That means we are imperfect to begin with, and have to learn how to become more perfect everyday.

Spend more time teaching your players to be respectful and then good ballplayers, I guarntee you will gain more of their respect than the approach your taking now.

Now, you can either take my advise and spend more time in the game helping your players become better people and ballplayers. Or tell me I'm wrong, and spend less time with your players and more time explaining to your parents along the side lines, why your team always gets hosed.

"Any suggestions how I might handle this situation with this umpire in the future?"

RESPECT, RESPECT, RESPECT.

[Mattinglyfan]

First of all I really enjoy this website. It really gives me an opportunity to make myself a better manager. You are absolutely right. It was a judgement call. And all umpires have a difficult job, especially close calls, and deserve respect. Shouldn't the respect work both ways? In an instructional league, it would be nice to know what the reason for the call was. If my player pulled his foot, I can instruct him on another possible way to field it. I was very respectful, as a mentioned, in handling this matter. I didn't raise my voice, I asked for time, an walked toward the umpire to ask a simple question. I did feel disrespected in the way he handled it. Do you think that I should be warned for asking in a polite manner. My kids are not allowed to question an umpire. It is my job. Should I sit on my hands, and not question a questionable call? It seems that because I ask what he saw that made hime call the runner safe, it automatically turns into a pissing contest with this guy. We are there for the kids.

[cmckenna]

Perhaps this umpire was just doing some preventative officiating to avoid any problems. It sounds like perhaps your first encounter with him in your earlier game was not done in a respectful manner. Also it seems that perhaps you get a little hot at times as stated in your quote below:

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
I am not the easiest guy to get along with on the field. I coach with the same intensity as a played. I am always fired up and vocal to me players. Sometimes that carries over to the umpires regarding calls. If I think there is a bad call I will let the umpire know. By the way my players are not allowed to talk, or show up the umpires. If the do they sit.
We were involved in a very tight game a few weeks ago, and a particular umpire made three very questionable calls that were not in our favor. I let him know that I didn't agree each of them. Needless to say we didn't get along after that.

It sounds like you set a precedent with this guy based on your earlier reactions and he may have just been looking to avoid further confrontations.

No manager, coach, player is ever going to openly admit that they agree with a call that goes against them but believe it or not, as officials we really don't care who wins.

[johnSandlin]

I agree with both sides of this issue. First off coach, you did indicate that you were intense towards your players and that it sometimes carries over towards the umpires, so you did let your "MO" out of the bag.

However, I do think the umpire was wrong in what he did when you wanted an explanation on the safe/out call. I totally agree with you with what you said about when a game is done, it is done, and everything is left on the field from that day, and it ends there. Even though, it was a judgement call by the umpire, since you were conducting yourself in a good fashion up that play, I think the umpire could have done you a courtesy and explained what he saw on the play.

As hard as it is, I do try to leave things behind after each game. This past year, I worked the USSSA baseball World Series, and I ended up dumping a player for swearing at me after I called him out at second base. That call ended the game. Well, game management had no problem with the ejection what so ever...however, where the problem lied was, I was to see that team again in their next game doing the dish.

So, what I did, to avoid any problems of any kind, was just switch crews for that one game only. That way it give me a game off from that team, and it gave the team a game off from me. In my opinion, that it probably, what the umpire should have done for you. He should worked a different game, just so everyone had better feeling, and things were allowed to stayed died down.

I know, I probably will receive some heat from the forum on my approach of this topic, but just as much as we tell coaches we want respect as umpires, you guys as coaches deserve respect from us as umpires.

[Mattinglyfan]

I think that is a very good point. I think that had a lot to do with it. I really think that as a manager I have a responsibilty to back my players. I really did make an effort to ask about the play and not question his "judgement" , but to find out why he made the call he did. At least that way my player would understand what he did, if anything. I really think that is important. Do you have any suggestions on what I might do now, with what I have told you. Do you think it would be appropriate to maybe talk to this guy, and let him know that I have nothing against "him", I have just questioned a couple of calls. Which as far as I am concerned, "Is Baseball." I know that umpires talk to each other. I am trying to tone it down, and be respectful, and I want to make sure that my boys aren't getting shafted because I have pissed off an umpire.

"You argue with the umpire because there is nothing else you can do about it." LEO DUROCHER

[MD Longhorn]

While I agree with the points of my brethren in the posts above, I think perhaps the umpire did hold the previous day's activities against you more than he should. You could have helped that at the end of the previous game with a handshake and a "Nice game blue - I know I was a little vocal earlier, but I know you guys have a tough job to do, and I appreciate your coming out here for the kids", or something along those lines.

That said - I always start each game fresh. I see the same coaches over and over. Sometimes in consecutive games even. Bygones are bygones. If you'd been quiet all game, and came out calmly, I'd have given you a second to ask your question. Umpire shouldn't have shut you down that quickly.

One other suggestion - ask for time, have your timeout granted, and THEN come out of the dugout. It's much less confrontational than just calling time and approaching blue.

[JRutledge]

Mattinglyfan,

You are not owed an explaination on judgment calls ever. It is a courtesy that the umpire even allows you to argue without being tossed. Always remember that fact. Because if I want to go strictly by the rules, he had every right to toss you.

Secondly, I would like to know how that umpire showed you "attitude?" Maybe he was trying not to be overly talkative, because of what happen the day before. We are human and I will admit that if a coach acted a certain way, I am not going to be all buddy, buddy with him the next time. Not because I have a grudge, but because I do not want to add to an already unconfrontable situation. Maybe he had nothing to say to you. But I would still like to know what he did to you?

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

JR, you have to admit that even though Mattingly wore out his welcome the day before, there's nothing wrong with calling time to ask whether the first baseman pulled his foot or bobbled the catch. Nor should there be. I still think there was a lot Mattingly could have done better in this situation, it sounds (from this admittedly 1-sided account) like it could have been handled better by blue as well.

Mattingly - you should take JR's first part to heart though. There is no inalienable right to argue a judgement call at all. Come out and ask a question - fine. But it sounds like you'd pissed this guy off enough in that first game, that by all rights he probably should have tossed you during THAT game, so maybe you were more belligerent than you think you were.

I can envision a conversation prior to the game, where young inexperienced homeplate umpire sees you, explains to his partner what happened the day before, and experienced base ump suggests: "If he breathes funny, toss him." Right or wrong - I can certainly see it happening.

[Mattinglyfan]

Mb,
I agree with parts of what everyone said, that is whay I came to a seems to be a predominently umpire frequented website. You see the game from a different perspective. For the record, I have the ultimate respect for anyone that participates in the greatest game on earth. I have been around the game for 25 five years. Most of those were playing. I have a lot to learn as a manager. I think no one ever stops learning. Manager, Player, and Umpires. When there is a situation, I ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS come over and the the ump know that I appreciate the job he is doing and let him know that my reaction to a call, had nothing to do with him personally. IT IS A GAME. I think that you should go out win on every play "period." Sometimes things are said during the game that no one would ever say off the field to one another. Sometimes I purposley will make an extra effort to let blue know that me and everyone on Earth saw the play different, hoping that maybe he will acknowledge that he makes mistakes too. And maybe next time I will get one too. It seems like sometimes umpires might take things, and carry over to the next game. That's just plain ridiculous. I am not asking anyone to be "buddy buddy". What happens on the field should stay on the field. That is why we shake hands, and tell the other team good game, you did a great job. Because it is a game.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
JR, you have to admit that even though Mattingly wore out his welcome the day before, there's nothing wrong with calling time to ask whether the first baseman pulled his foot or bobbled the catch. Nor should there be. I still think there was a lot Mattingly could have done better in this situation, it sounds (from this admittedly 1-sided account) like it could have been handled better by blue as well.

I completely agree that he can ask a question, but understand when you are dealing with other human beings, they can and will hold grudges (if we have not noticed on the these internet officiating sites ). Yes, he can and should be able to ask a question, but when you burn a bridge with your behavior the day before, do not expect to get as much rope the next day. We do not know the story from the umpire that was confronted, so he might have much more to say about the coach's behavior then we know. At least he was being honest and telling he coach to "save his words" so to speak. He could have tossed him on the spot. I am not advocating that action, but the coach is on borrowed time. He should understand that much and maybe he will not argue ever call that he disagrees with. Because when a coach does, you are not going to get more respect from that umpire and you might find yourself closer to the ledge.

Originally posted by mbcrowder

I can envision a conversation prior to the game, where young inexperienced homeplate umpire sees you, explains to his partner what happened the day before, and experienced base ump suggests: "If he breathes funny, toss him." Right or wrong - I can certainly see it happening.

That could have easily happen. I know many guys that like tossing coaches in baseball, so that would never surprise me, nor is it far fetched.

Peace

[Mattinglyfan]

Thanks guys. All points taken. I will make it a point that the next time I see that umpire I will let him know that I think he does a heck of a job. He is one of the better umpires I have seen. I think that he can even make a bad call every now and then though. Like you said, we all can make mistakes. Myself definitely included.
Is this the greatest game on earth or what!!

"I believe managing is like holding a dove in your hand. If you hold it too tightly you kill it, but if you hold it too loosely, you lose it." Tommy Lasorda"

[jicecone]

"I have just questioned a couple of calls. Which as far as I am concerned, "Is Baseball.""

This is what most people really believe. Not only Baseball , but almost all sports now days. And Im not talking about sports where the players are paid professionally to play. Although, they probably respect the officials a lot more than the amateurs.

You keep missing the point, Coaching youth players is not about you. It is about them and the Game.

The Game, well thats simple. Any rulebook or manual can help you in teaching the basics of how to pitch, catch and throw and hit.

Them, your players. Well, how you talk , walk and breath will be your mark that each and everyone will remember you by. That is, if they want to remember you.

Why must you insist on questioning the calls?

I agree, respect is a two way street. Which means, if you truley want it, then you TRULEY have to give it. Even if the official is horrible. Bite your tongue, Suck it up and show them who is really the respectful person on the field.

It also saves on the cost of rolaids and mallox. Good Luck.

[cmckenna]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
I think that you should go out win on every play "period."

Several times in this post you referred to your team/leagu as an instructional level... Perhaps the attitude reflected above causes some of the difficulties you have encountered.

With my instructional level players my philosophy is that you should go out and LEARN something on every play...

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
Sometimes I purposley will make an extra effort to let blue know that me and everyone on Earth saw the play different, hoping that maybe he will acknowledge that he makes mistakes too.

Probably not a good thing to do to if you want to get on an umpires good side.

Just because you think you saw a play differently does not mean that you saw it correctly.

And what if the official said he was wrong on some plays... then you would just start doubting EVERY call he makes.