Illegal Courtesy Runner

[donnman]

In a local Pony age game a Courtesy runner was used for the pitcher. The league allows for courtesy runners for the pitcher/catcher. In the rules it stipulates that the runner must be the "Last batted out."

With two outs and runners on second & third the visiting team used a courtesy runner for the pitcher who was on 2nd. On the first pitch after the courtesy runner was put into the game, the batter hit a double, scoring both runs and putting the visiting team ahead 11-10.

The home manager came out after the play and pointed out that the courtesy runner was illegal because he was not the last batted out. After conferring with both managers it was confirmed that the courtesy runner was not the last batted out and thus ruled an illegal substitution and called out. The two runs were not counted because it was the third out of the inning. The inning was ruled over with the home team holding the lead 10-9.

A league official was contacted during the discussion and he over ruled the umps and said the home manager should have said something before the hit giving the visiting team the chance to put in the right courtesy runner. We think this is incorrect and we thought the umps on the field had the correct call. It would be very similar to batting out of order.

Thoughts?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by donnman

In a local Pony age game a Courtesy runner was used for the pitcher. The league allows for courtesy runners for the pitcher/catcher. In the rules it stipulates that the runner must be the "Last batted out."

With two outs and runners on second & third the visiting team used a courtesy runner for the pitcher who was on 2nd. On the first pitch after the courtesy runner was put into the game, the batter hit a double, scoring both runs and putting the visiting team ahead 11-10.

The home manager came out after the play and pointed out that the courtesy runner was illegal because he was not the last batted out. After conferring with both managers it was confirmed that the courtesy runner was not the last batted out and thus ruled an illegal substitution and called out. The two runs were not counted because it was the third out of the inning. The inning was ruled over with the home team holding the lead 10-9.

A league official was contacted during the discussion and he over ruled the umps and said the home manager should have said something before the hit giving the visiting team the chance to put in the right courtesy runner. We think this is incorrect and we thought the umps on the field had the correct call. It would be very similar to batting out of order.

Thoughts?

In OBR, which PONY uses with modifications, an illegal subs actions are allowed. There is a penalty if caught but the actions by the sub stand. I believe PONY has not modified this in their book.
The league official was correct.

[MD Longhorn]

Honestly... you're asking a national board of umpires that has actual real-life rulebooks to go by.

And you're asking us to interpret a local rule that only applies to your local league, that can really only be interpreted by your local league's UIC.

What SHOULD the ruling be? I would vote with allowing the actions of the runner to stand... but I could argue the reverse.

If the solution to what to do in this case is not spelled out in your local rules ... this is why we constantly say ... LRAMBF.

[bob jenkins]

I agree that in OBR the run stands and that theer's no way for us to tell what the local rule really is. I will add that in FED, the manager / umpires are correct and the run does not count (allowing for the "last batted out" to be an exception to FED's CR rules).

[donnman]

Thank you Bob Jenkins for a reasonable answer and for not being so critical of the question. My first time here on this site and was just looking for some information, not to be chastised for asking a question.

Just a little clarification, the league rule only states that the courtesy runner be the last batted out. It does not go into what a penalty would be. Since there were no other specific rules spelled out in "league rules" the ump said he reverted to Michigan High School rules, and said if he were doing a High School game that is how he would have called it. Illegal substitution, the courtesy runner is out and the runs would not count.

[bob jenkins]

We have a saying: Local Rules are Made by Fools. And, this is an example. So, since it's not covered, the umpire gets to invoke 9.01(c) (or whatever the new rule number is -- 8.01(c)?). However, the league / tourney director can always rule the other way -- and now everyone knows what the rule is for them