How much contact in too much?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It sounds to me like he just got caught up in the wording or misunderstanding of the rule. I bet he knows the rule know that he has is asking about this situation. Not sure I would consider that a "lie" but not having a full understanding of what is required, considering he is asking a question about "how much contact."

Peace

Huh????

"I had on with some contact in a FED game today."
"I told him that there was not enough contact for me to call interference."

I changed my answer to "In my judgement, there was no contact." I knew that using the phrase "in my judgement" would stop the discussion there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Huh????

"I had on with some contact in a FED game today."
"I told him that there was not enough contact for me to call interference."

I changed my answer to "In my judgement, there was no contact." I knew that using the phrase "in my judgement" would stop the discussion there.

I guess you have never come in contact with officials that talk without being sure or positive about the actual rule? He sounded like he was unsure and I am also assuming that on some level when an individual has to ask such a rules question at a place like this. He clearly was not sure if what he was saying is true or we would not be reading any of his comments in my opinion.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess you have never come in contact with officials that talk without being sure or positive about the actual rule? He sounded like he was unsure and I am also assuming that on some level when an individual has to ask such a rules question at a place like this. He clearly was not sure if what he was saying is true or we would not be reading any of his comments in my opinion.

Peace

Sure I have. That's kind of irrelevant.

He said 1) he had one with some contact; and 2) he told coach there was no contact.

Don't lie to a coach and call it judgement just to avoid a protest. I think this is good advice. Maybe you disagree... but its completely clear that he lied to the coach on purpose, and called it judgement so he had a way out. This is ethically wrong.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Sure I have. That's kind of irrelevant.

He said 1) he had one with some contact; and 2) he told coach there was no contact.

Don't lie to a coach and call it judgement just to avoid a protest. I think this is good advice. Maybe you disagree... but its completely clear that he lied to the coach on purpose, and called it judgement so he had a way out. This is ethically wrong.

I do not think it is irrelevant. I think officials have and will BS their way through a rule by telling a coach something that they are unsure about. And lying does not mean he was sure or he would have stood by what he originally thought. It is clear to me he was not very clear and just wanted the discussion to stop as he stated.

And yes I have lied to a coach about seeing the same thing when we have decided that we are going one way because IMO it is not the business of the coach to know what I am really thinking if I have not made a call or not. Not that it happens all the time in baseball, but in basketball I have had many double whistles and have something different from my partner, but tell the coach I had the same thing. I am not selling out my crew or my partner so that the coach can undermine us later. I will say what I need to say so that the conversation will end and we will move on and any disagreement with my partner will take place behind closed doors, not in front of the coach or on the field/court. If you do not do it that way, that is your right. I just would not want to do that and sometimes we need to discuss the situation at another time.

Peace

[Matt]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And yes I have lied to a coach about seeing the same thing when we have decided that we are going one way because IMO it is not the business of the coach to know what I am really thinking if I have not made a call or not. Not that it happens all the time in baseball, but in basketball I have had many double whistles and have something different from my partner, but tell the coach I had the same thing. I am not selling out my crew or my partner so that the coach can undermine us later. I will say what I need to say so that the conversation will end and we will move on and any disagreement with my partner will take place behind closed doors, not in front of the coach or on the field/court. If you do not do it that way, that is your right. I just would not want to do that and sometimes we need to discuss the situation at another time.

Well, in baseball, if having a conversation with a coach would mean undermining your partner if you tell the truth, you shouldn't have been in that conversation in the first place.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Matt

Well, in baseball, if having a conversation with a coach would mean undermining your partner if you tell the truth, you shouldn't have been in that conversation in the first place.

I agree, but you also sometimes are going to be put in those conversations without your initiating those conversations. If you just completely ignore them, that might not go over well either. This is also not unique to baseball and often more common in other sports to have coaches asking you questions about things you are not aware of then your partner.

Peace

[Matt]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree, but you also sometimes are going to be put in those conversations without your initiating those conversations.

Yes, and that's where you end it. We have the luxury of discretion in baseball--either he knows he's going somewhere he shouldn't, or he doesn't, and you can handle either appropriately.

[johnnyg08]

I would avoid the "not enough contact" language and stick to the rule. He either was or was not hindered.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I would avoid the "not enough contact" language and stick to the rule. He either was or was not hindered.

+1
he either was or was not hindered. Whether it was by contact or by other means (ie just standing in the way and causing the baserunner to circumvent the fielder) is irrelevant. Mentioning the extent of the contact only confuses the matter.