What'cha got on this?

[representing]

Youtube video I just came across:

YouTube - Technical & Unsportsmanlike Foul

As you can see, Head Coach already given a technical foul just before the shooting foul. What would you do in this situation? I don't know what happened after this, the video just cuts off right when the players fall down.

So, What'cha got?

[Adam]

Interesting case, and it depends on which team he coaches. If he's the defensive coach in this play, count the basket (assuming it went in), shoot two for the intentional and then two for the technical foul.

If he's the offensive coach, discount the basket. Shoot two for the coach's T, then the shooter will take two free throws for the dead ball intentional technical foul that happened on the "shot."

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Interesting case, and it depends on which team he coaches. If he's the defensive coach in this play, count the basket (assuming it went in), shoot two for the intentional and then two for the technical foul.

If he's the offensive coach, discount the basket. Shoot two for the coach's T, then the shooter will take two free throws for the dead ball intentional technical foul that happened on the "shot."

That's what I probably would have done if the ball went in. However, if the ball misses the basket? And would you call that foul a flagrant or intentional foul? Only difference is whether the fouling player is ejected or not.

[Adam]

If the basket misses, it only matters in the first scenario, with the coach being of the defensive team. In that case, the shooter gets three shots instead of two.

Since the shot wasn't taken, technically, in the 2nd scenario, it doesn't matter. The "shooter's" team still gets two free throws for the technical foul. The player technical in the 2nd scenario would simply be intentional, IMO.

Also, another difference in the two scenarios: offensive coach means it's an intentional technical (or flagrant technical if you desire), because the ball is dead. Defensive coach means it's a personal foul, which means the fouled player has to take the FTs (but means he will either get the 3 points or an additional FT). The inbounds spot is also affected.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Also, another difference in the two scenarios: offensive coach means it's an intentional technical (or flagrant technical if you desire), because the ball is dead. Defensive coach means it's a personal foul, which means the fouled player has to take the FTs (but means he will either get the 3 points or an additional FT). The inbounds spot is also affected.

Take a look a the realtime part of the video (before replay is shown). You can see, if you look quick enough, that right after giving the T with both hands, the referee looks and sees an intentional or flagrant foul and goes to give the signal for intentional/flagrant foul just before it cuts to the replay. I definitely going with at least an intentional whether it was the offensive or defensive coach. No reason for that kind of force that defensive player had on the shooter.

Other than that, I do agree with you on the rest. Thanks for your insights Snaqwells!

[jdw3018]

Snaqwells is saying it's an intentional either way - but whether it's an intentional personal or intentional technical depends on which coach the technical foul was called.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

Take a look a the realtime part of the video (before replay is shown). You can see, if you look quick enough, that right after giving the T with both hands, the referee looks and sees an intentional or flagrant foul and goes to give the signal for intentional/flagrant foul just before it cuts to the replay. I definitely going with at least an intentional whether it was the offensive or defensive coach. No reason for that kind of force that defensive player had on the shooter.

Other than that, I do agree with you on the rest. Thanks for your insights Snaqwells!

First of all, that is not the signal for a flagrant foul, it's the signal for an intentional foul which would work regardless. Secondly, this is such an uncommon situation that I wouldn't take the official's preliminary signals as any indicator either what was actually ruled or what should have been ruled. This scenario is bound to momentarily screw up anyone's mechanics.

Yes, taking away the coach T, this foul is an easy intentional (due to excessive contact), which is why I said it should be ruled as such even if the coach is the coach of team B (the defender). If he's Coach B, the ball is live until the shot goes in or misses; that's why the foul is personal rather than technical. If he's Coach A (offense), the ball is dead immediately, making the player foul a technical.

[constable]

FIBA clip so here are the fiba rules.

Type C technical foul on the coach

The contact foul is an "unsporting foul" ( much like North America's " Intentional" foul).

That is the signal the official is giving. Both arms overhead, one hand grasping the other wrist.

Foul penalties are enforced in the order they occur. That being said, fouls of equal penalty cancel out and you got POI.

[Ref_in_Alberta]

Originally Posted by constable

FIBA clip so here are the fiba rules.

Type C technical foul on the coach

The contact foul is an "unsporting foul" ( much like North America's " Intentional" foul).

That is the signal the official is giving. Both arms overhead, one hand grasping the other wrist.

Foul penalties are enforced in the order they occur. That being said, fouls of equal penalty cancel out and you got POI.

Constable,

99.99999999999% correct. There is no POI (defined) under FIBA rules. When penalties of equal weight occur and you can start cancelling penalties (i.e. Coach A T - Team B Unsportsmanlike = 0) the correct resumption of play in this case is AP.

In the case where there is Team Control and a double foul or offsetting technicals occurs the ball goes back to the team that was in control when the foul occured.

Double foul where there is a basket scored. The team that was scored on gets the ball OOB for the throw in.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta

Constable,

99.99999999999% correct. There is no POI (defined) under FIBA rules. When penalties of equal weight occur and you can start cancelling penalties (i.e. Coach A T - Team B Unsportsmanlike = 0) the correct resumption of play in this case is AP.

In the case where there is Team Control and a double foul or offsetting technicals occurs the ball goes back to the team that was in control when the foul occured.

Double foul where there is a basket scored. The team that was scored on gets the ball OOB for the throw in.

Sorry, but there's no continuous motion rule for a technical foul on the coach. Article 10.4 states that "the ball does not become dead if a player commits a foul on any opponent while the ball is in the control of the opponent in the act of shooting for field goal and who finishes his shot with a continuous motion which started before the foul occurred." A coach is not a player.

In this case the ball leaves the shooter's hands after the official whistled for the T on the coach. So, strictly speaking, the basket should not be counted. The player's foul is an easy U (it does not matter whether the ball is dead or alive); since the act of shooting began before the ball became dead for the technical foul, the penalty is three FT and possession of the ball at the division line, since the shooter was in the three point area.

If the coach is of the blue team, two FT for any player of the white team, three FT for the player who was fouled and ball at the division line for the white team.

If the coach is of the white team the penalties do not cancel: so two FT for any player of the blue team, three FT for the player who was fouled and ball at the division line for the white team. By rule, the possession for the blue team is lost, since another penalty must be administered.

Assuming that the shooter was in the two point area, there would be no AP either; the two penalties would cancel, but at the moment of the first infraction the ball was in possession of the white team, so the play would resume with a throw-in for the white team. Article 12.3 states that there is a jump ball situation when "After the cancellation of equal penalties against both teams, there are no other foul penalties remaining for administration and neither team had control of the ball nor was entitled to the ball before the first foul or violation."

However, the official shouldn't have called a technical on the coach while a player was in the act of shooting. Follow the play, which is more important, the technical can come after the shoot.

Ciao

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Interesting case, and it depends on which team he coaches. If he's the defensive coach in this play, count the basket (assuming it went in), shoot two for the intentional and then two for the technical foul.

If he's the offensive coach, discount the basket. Shoot two for the coach's T, then the shooter will take two free throws for the dead ball intentional technical foul that happened on the "shot."

First, I assume continuous motion rules apply to technical fouls as well. If so, then I agree with all (if we're talking NFHS here), except in the first scenario you describe, shoot the technical foul shots first, then the intentional personal second, then ball out at the point nearest the foul. The technical came before the intentional...

Hmmm...interesting.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

First, I assume continuous motion rules apply to technical fouls as well. If so, then I agree with all (if we're talking NFHS here), except in the first scenario you describe, shoot the technical foul shots first, then the intentional personal second, then ball out at the point nearest the foul. The technical came before the intentional...

Hmmm...interesting.

Yes, it does apply, and you're right. Tech then Int.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Interesting case, and it depends on which team he coaches. If he's the defensive coach in this play, count the basket (assuming it went in), shoot two for the intentional and then two for the technical foul.

If he's the offensive coach, discount the basket. Shoot two for the coach's T, then the shooter will take two free throws for the dead ball intentional technical foul that happened on the "shot."

I disagree with your stated order of the FTs if he is the defensive coach.

I disagree with who you say will take the 2FTs for the intentional technical if he is the offensive coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I disagree with your stated order of the FTs if he is the defensive coach.

I disagree with who you say will take the 2FTs for the intentional technical if he is the offensive coach.

Thanks, I fixed them later. You're right.