Jump ball

[zanzibar]

Not counting an airborne player.... Is it possible to have a held ball with only one hand on the ball? I think you can but just making sure. NF definition is a little confusing for me. 4-25-1 "opponents have their hands" is the confusing part to me.

[mick]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Not counting an airborne player.... Is it possible to have a held ball with only one hand on the ball? I think you can but just making sure. NF definition is a little confusing for me. 4-25-1 "opponents have their hands" is the confusing part to me.

zanzibar,
Sure you can.
A defender may only need one hand to prevent the release of a pass or shot.
mick

[ChiliBob]

Yep, happens all the time but, all too often, I see this called as a foul on the defense when A1 turns to try and get the ball loose. Make sure you see the whole play and call the held ball if that is what it is first.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by ChiliBob
Yep, happens all the time but, all too often, I see this called as a foul on the defense when A1 turns to try and get the ball loose. Make sure you see the whole play and call the held ball if that is what it is first.

If A1 has two hands on the ball and B1 has one, I don't have a held ball situation, because it does not fit the definition. 4-25-1

Unless one kid has a VERY big hand, the kid with two hands on the ball will not need undue roughness to get sole control of the ball.

I see WAY TOO MANY held balls called, WAY TOO QUICKLY.

I also see officials that allow upright players to attack the ball and tie it up from the side or behind and give them the held ball when in most cases it SHOULD have been a foul.

[Edited by blindzebra on Jan 20th, 2005 at 03:46 PM]

[Smitty]

Originally posted by blindzebra

If A1 has two hands on the ball and B1 has one, I don't have a held ball situation, because it does not fit the definition. 4-25-1

Unless one kid has a VERY big hand, the kid with two hands on the ball will not need undue roughness to get sole control of the ball.

I see WAY TOO MANY held balls called, WAY TOO QUICKLY.

I also see officials that allow upright players to attack the ball and tie it up from the side or behind and give them the held ball when in most cases it SHOULD have been a foul.

[Edited by blindzebra on Jan 20th, 2005 at 03:46 PM]

This is exactly the reasoning I used in determining my travel instead of a held ball in the situation I laid out in another thread. There appears to be no situation where a defender can have only one hand on the ball and have that cause a jump ball OTHER THAN when the player on offense is an airborne shooter.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Smitty

This is exactly the reasoning I used in determining my travel instead of a held ball in the situation I laid out in another thread. There appears to be no situation where a defender can have only one hand on the ball and have that cause a jump ball OTHER THAN when the player on offense is an airborne shooter.

I went back and read that thread and I agree with a travel, if you are certain PC was not lost on the touch.

Now you will see a two hand grab and a pull-away stumble more often than your play, and in that type of play I'd more likely go with a held ball, because the pulling away more closely fits the definition of undue roughness.

[mick]

Originally posted by Smitty

There appears to be no situation where a defender can have only one hand on the ball and have that cause a jump ball OTHER THAN when the player on offense is an airborne shooter.

A1 starts to pass to A2.
Before the one-handed pass is released, B1 puts one hand on the ball and prevents the release.
"Jump!"

mick

[Smitty]

Originally posted by mick

A1 starts to pass to A2.
Before the one-handed pass is released, B1 puts one hand on the ball and prevents the release.
"Jump!"

mick

Isn't that only true for an airborne passer? If the offensive player has feet on the floor and this happens, chances are the ball ends up loose and I would have a no-call. No?

[Smitty]

Originally posted by blindzebra

I went back and read that thread and I agree with a travel, if you are certain PC was not lost on the touch.

Now you will see a two hand grab and a pull-away stumble more often than your play, and in that type of play I'd more likely go with a held ball, because the pulling away more closely fits the definition of undue roughness.

Agreed. And thank you.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by mick

A1 starts to pass to A2.
Before the one-handed pass is released, B1 puts one hand on the ball and prevents the release.
"Jump!"

mick

Correct if the passer is airborne, 4-25-2.

It says nothing about a player stepping or standing.

[mick]

Originally posted by Smitty

Isn't that only true for an airborne passer? If the offensive player has feet on the floor and this happens, chances are the ball ends up loose and I would have a no-call. No?

Gee, Smitty. I dunno.
Let's add some stuff:

A1 starts to pass to A2 (lifting pivot and now on one foot).
Before the one-handed pass is released, B1 puts one hand on the ball and prevents the release (causing A2 to lose balance and retouch his pivot foot).

"Jump?" ...."Travel?"

mick

[Smitty]

Originally posted by mick

Gee, Smitty. I dunno.
Let's add some stuff:

A1 starts to pass to A2 (lifting pivot and now on one foot).
Before the one-handed pass is released, B1 puts one hand on the ball and prevents the release (causing A2 to lose balance and retouch his pivot foot).

"Jump?" ...."Travel?"

mick

That certainly makes it interesting. But I still maintain that the specific rule that covers this particular play requires the offensive player to be airborne. So is a player airborne when he lifts his pivot foot, or when he lifts both feet? I'm not being sarcastic here - I am seriously asking. I don't have my books with me to look it up myself.

[blindzebra]

To further confuse things:

Many times in lower levels and...don't kill me Juulie...girl's games, the shooter NEVER becomes airborne.

Now, I know I've had some knee flex, tipped toes, one handed, shot stoppers, and I have called some of them held balls.

I've also had a few nothings, because the shooter did not violate in any way after their set shot was contested.

[mick]

Originally posted by Smitty

That certainly makes it interesting. But I still maintain that the specific rule that covers this particular play requires the offensive player to be airborne. So is a player airborne when he lifts his pivot foot, or when he lifts both feet? I'm not being sarcastic here - I am seriously asking. I don't have my books with me to look it up myself.

No definition, Smitty.
But I gotta believe an airborne player isn't touchng the floor.

airborne
adj : moved or conveyed by or through air

[Jurassic Referee]

When in doubt, go what what you think is the logical purpose and intent of the rule. Imo, if one hand prevents a shot or pass and the player with the ball simply can't do anything, call the held ball.