[lpneck]

Retired basketball official venturing over to the baseball side as a coach with a question on the interpretation for 2 plays.

These are under LL tournament rules, but I would be interested in knowing any differences under NFHS rules as well.

Play 1: Runners on 2nd and 3rd and a fly ball is hit to the CF. The CF catches the ball, and in attempting to take the ball out of his glove and transfer it to his throwing hand, he drops the ball. The 2B umpire (4 man crew) makes no signal. There is significant confusion, and the play continues. Both runners cross home plate (R3 tagged up, but R2, who went part way on the fly to center, did not go back and tag up once he saw the ball on the ground.) At the end of the play, the defense throws behind the batter/runner who has rounded 1B, and he is tagged and called out by the 1B umpire.

I was the defensive manager, and asked to go out to talk to the 2B umpire to find out if he had seen the CF make the catch and if not if he would ask any partners for help. The umpires got together, and basically said, "it doesn't matter, you retired the batter anyway." I obviously disagreed because we were going to appeal the play at 2nd base since the runner never tagged up. In real life, that was the end of the situation- there were 2 outs and 2 runs scored on the play.

So my question is this- what if the umpires had gotten together and ruled that it was a catch and the batter was out? Now, with no one on base and 2 outs, once the umpire makes the ball live we legally appeal to 2nd base and they call R2 out for leaving the base early. Does R3's run count? Or do both runs come off the board?

I'll put play 2 in a separate thread for easier discussion. Thank you!