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Old Sat Feb 04, 2012, 02:30pm
Nevadaref Nevadaref is offline
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Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
There was probably not a foul on the shot, but there was a definite foul prior to that on the catch. The defender has 2 hands in his back pushing him forward away from the basket while he has the ball. That is an "absolute", IMHO.

So I'm assuming (to be generous to the official) THAT's the foul that was called.
By the book and per NFHS POEs, 100% correct.
(Note: the timing of the official in the video is very poor.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
Whats the definition of "incidental contact"? Contact that had no bearing on the play.
Not correct.

Incidental contact is contact with an opponent which is permitted and which
does not constitute a foul.
ART. 1 . . .
The mere fact that contact occurs does not constitute a foul. When
10 players are moving rapidly in a limited area, some contact is certain to occur.

ART. 2 . . .
Contact, which may result when opponents are in equally favorable
positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be
considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe.

ART. 3 . . .
Similarly, contact which does not hinder the opponent from
participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered

incidental.


The incidental contact rule does not instruct officials to ignore illegal contact which is defined elsewhere in the rules book as a foul.
Scrapper correctly states that the defender pushed the offensive player with two hands in the back as he was airborne and receiving the ball. You even state that there was displacement.
POE #2 for this season reiterates several of the NFHS directives on fouls.

2. GUIDELINES FOR TEACHING AND OFFICIATING.
The following guidelines are
excerpts from past NFHS Points of Emphasis. The committee believes sharing

these guidelines again will assist in game administration.

...
A. Handchecking/Body Fouls.
1)
Tactics using the hands, arms or body that permit any player (offense
or defense) to "control" (hold, impede, push, divert, slow or prevent)

the movement of an opposing player is a foul.
...
C. Post Play.
...
2)
The defense can assume a legal, vertical stance or position on the side,
front or behind the offensive post player. When the defense undercuts
(initiates lower-body non-vertical contact), slaps, pushes, holds,
elbows, forearms or just generally demonstrates rough, physical
movements or tactics, this is a foul on the defense and must be called
without warning.

3)
When a player pushes a leg or knee into the rear of an opponent, it is
a foul.

4)
When a player dislodges an opponent from an established position by
pushing or "backing in," it is a foul.

5) When a player uses hands, forearms or elbows to prevent an opponent from maintaining a legal position, it is a foul.



Furthermore, the offensive player and the defensive player are not in equally favorable positions, such as two opposing players running, jumping, or diving for a loose ball. Here one player has established a clear spot on the court and is receiving the ball without the opponent having a play for it. What is the action of the opponent? He pushes the offensive player away from his spot and to a greater distance from the basket.

Due to the vast difference in size and strength of the two players, it could be argued that despite the negatives that result to the offensive player's position from this contact, it still did not prevent him from executing his offensive move. Unfortunately, officiating cannot make allowances for illegal contact just because a superior athlete is still able to make the play despite the infraction. That is simple ignoring a foul.

The bottom line is that (in my opinion) you are incorrectly using the term incidental contact as justification to ignore a foul when a player makes a quality play despite the opponent doing something which is clearly stated to be illegal.

Last edited by Brad; Sat Feb 04, 2012 at 02:51pm. Reason: Font size was all messed up
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