Randy, your question has already been answered by JR. You are making this way too complicated. You can't grasp the rim save for the specific exceptions that have already been cited in the thread. I really don't understand what your confusion is. It's a pretty basic basket rule. 
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.
Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.
Last edited by APG; Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 12:58pm.
Reason: grammar
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