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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Unfortunately, you have no rules backing for the above statement.
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I contend the same of you, sir.
Rule 4-15-1 clearly says a dribble commences when a ball is batted or pushed "to the floor." Rule 4-15-2 talked about a ball that was "batted," then striking the floor. Neither happened here, nor was there intent to get it to the floor. It was an intended throw to oneself, which is not a pass, nor is it a dribble, either.
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So what was the action? And what rule do you use to back either assertion?
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I want to say travelling, but there's a problem with the aforementioned Case 4.15.4E(b). I have my hands on the latest NFHS rule/case book (2009-10), and there's no such (b) under 4.15.4E. Does anyone have the correct case number?
I certainly understand your it's-one-or-the-other paradigm, M&M, but I'm not about to call something it clearly isn't.
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Originally Posted by just another ref
I think the name of this particular violation (illegal dribble) is confusing the issue. ... Consider other violations.
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Better yet, consider any sports phrase with "illegal" in it:
*In basketball and football, an illegal use of hands requires a use of hands.
*In football, an illegal formation requires a formation.
*In hockey, an illegal stick certainly can't happen without a stick in question.
*And back to basketball: A player dribbles, holds the ball, then dribbles again. The second dribble is an illegal dribble. (I don't see what's so impossible about that, Cam.) Or, if you're touching the ball twice before it hits the ground, you're dribbling illegally.
The word "illegal" does not negate the noun. It recongizes the noun, or action, as being illegal.