Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
Yesterday, local quarterfinal playoff game. Home leading by 2. Bottom of the 6th, 2 out. Little chopper to 2b. Easy play, but pretty close. Now comes the fun part. There was contact between the runner and the first baseman. I didn't see the play enough to describe in detail, but the guy next to me said the runner actually initiated the exchange with a little swipe/poke at the 1B's midsection. 1B retaliated with, judging by the ump's demonstration to the coach, what could be described as a forearm shiver. This looked even worse because the 1B was a head taller and considerably heavier than the runner. Ump, without hesitation, pointed and signaled gone. Bad situation any way you look at it, but made even worse by the fact that the ejected player was the cleanup hitter, who we are told had 17 homers to his credit, and was due up 3rd in the top of the 7th. A near riot ensued with at least one visiting fan being removed from the premises, followed by a second call for the plate ump to have some more sent away from the fence because they were "harassing my man at first." I can't say the call was right or wrong, but I can say it was huge. What are the written guidelines, and what is the thought process for some of you on an ejection in this situation? The punishment seemed harsh for the crime in my opinion. It wasn't a punch. Nobody got knocked to the ground. The whole exchange took a fraction of a second. As I picture it, if this took place during a dead ball in a basketball game, it would not have been worthy of a whistle. Step between. "Take it easy guys." It's over.
No surprise, there is a guy posting on a local site about crooked umpires, letting the kids decide the game, etc. I don't even know where the ump in question is from, but I don't believe for a second that it was remotely a factor.
Thanks in advance for opinions.
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Just Another Ref:
I see a discussion of this play going in two parallel paths: (1) The BU did not see B/R poke F3 in the ribs and (2) BU did see B/R3 poke F3 in the ribs. Your discription also does not say if there were runners on base which would dictate where the BU was at the start of the play and where he would go in order to cover the play at 1B.
Be that as it may, I would consider a forearm shiver in baseball to be malicious contact and the penalty for malicious contact is ejection. Baseball is different from basketball and if I had seen the B/R poke F3 in the ribs, I would have ejected him, a punch is a punch is a punch, and that is malicious contact. I do not think that B/R's poke to F3's ribs can not be ruled anything other than malicious contact, especially if it caused F3 to retaliate in a manner that is easily defined as malicious contact.
I do not have a problem with F3's ejection. I am concerned that the BU did not see B/R's poking F3's ribs; whether he saw it or not is a function of his position at the time of the play.
Regarding the near riot in the stands, that is not the Umpires' concern, let game management take care of the riot. Regarding the fans standing by the fence harassing the BU, who cares. I am a big boy and if I am the BU I would be ignoring them. The only time the Umpires should be concerned about the fans along the fence is if they are making threats of physical violence against the Umpires or any participants (coaches and players) in the game.
Basketball wise: A forearm shiver is always an intentional foul at the least in my opinion, and if it retaliation then you have, by defintion a fight.
MTD, Sr.