[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I understand your comment about the defender falling as he did. Now what about the offensive player falling as he did? He can't magically check his hips out like that without some opposing force pushing on them. visual cues can aid you greatly in accuracy in play calling and this is one of those visual cues.

I cannot speak for you, but players do fall while trying to do things they cannot do. It happens all the time. That very thing happened in the last regular season game I had. I was the lead and a big time star was driving to the basket and he fell. I did not have a great angle and I did not guess. Both my partners had a much better look at the play from their point of view. They passed on the play because they saw him fall, but all indications looked like their might have been some contact. There was contact, but the dribbler (big time star mind you) fell to the floor and lost the ball. Now if I used your logic and assumed there was something illegal, at least according to my two partners I would have been wrong to just call a foul. This is a play I would like to hear what the official had to say, rather than just looking at a video. And as a clinician in many camps this summer, I would ask the officials on the floor, "What did you see?" Often their answer told me more about what I thought I saw than what really happened.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

secondly I would like to ask the question why are you still talking about the defender and how he landed? i like that you used another visual cue here and it does look like he flops a little, but the defender is no longer our sole problem once the kid is airborne. we have to first determine if the defender is legal or illegal. In this case I would say most ppl have said he was illegal and with that being the case we now have to see if his illegal movement or positioning and subsequent contact, whether it be slight or not, hindered the offensive player from completing a natural basketball play or movement? If you take that criterion and still say no to it then fine I'm ok with that, but I believe you would be wrong in just saying that it was minimal contact and on that basis alone you don't have a foul for that reason, solely.

I will give you a perfect answer. If the defender fell as if no one touched him (or a flop), then it is hard to come to the conclusion there was much contact. And the fact that we are only looking at someone's back (the shooter), and then I can come to some other conclusion that there was contact. Also the way the player fell was suggestive to me as if they missed the defender for the most part and fell as a result of being out of control and not because of contact.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I would like to say this is my opinion, but under the assumption that the said player is illegal then he is what he is, illegal! Therefore, barring any overt move by the offensive player, the onus is on the defender to be legal and any subsequent contact hindering a player from completing a natural, athletic basketball move or play should be deemed a foul.

If you have not noticed, I am giving my "opinion" too. I never said this was what actually took place. I said that this is what it looked like to me. Now if you disagree that is fine. But when I was at camps all summer, people disagreed left and right about plays that happen. So we are just going to have to agree to disagree, because nothing you have said changes my mind.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

sidenote: if this offensive player lands straight on his feet or iow completing his move and in my judgement he was not hindered by this contact, then I would no call this play. At the same time if he lands on his feet and i feel he was unable to complete his move I would still have a whistle.

Gotta love this job! Not always so black and white!

Well I guess all players that attempt to jump in the air are always under control. Once again, I would like to be in position to make a call and not guessing by a blurry video. Maybe that is just me.

Peace