[LMan]

Originally Posted by tballump

As each runner and umpires know prior to the batter hitting the ball, the appropriate play in this case is to first base to start with, since this will negate any runs scored due to the rule about the batter being put out at first base for the 3rd out (first rule of baseball). However, in this case the 3rd baseman elects to use (remember he has a choice) the "tag play" which creates a "time play" situation on a non-forced runner and hopes he makes the tag prior the runner touching home plate. Since the fielder elects this choice to make the 3rd out, it is too bad that after making the tag for the 3rd out he now remembers the first rule of baseball and throws to first and gets the slow batter runner for a 4th out. This 4th out is not recognized in this situation. Not our fault fielder forgot the first rule of baseball, and decided on the tag play option for a legitimate 3rd out. However, since the homeplate umpire has ruled the runner from 3rd scored before the tag at 3rd on the runner from 2nd, the run scores on the time play. Now, if the batter runner never advanced to 1st for whatever reason (runner forgets first rule of baseball) or over-ran 1st and on appeal is called out that is where the 4th out interpretation would come into play and now the 4th out is recognized and the run is wiped off the scorebook. However, for more help on this topic, if Fitzy was consulted, it would seem whatever he said would stand since he has a more intricate knowlegde of the rules and interpretations for these types of "knotty problems". Also, I do not know if Chris Jaksa and his partner(sorry I forget his name) are on any posts, but if they are, I would think they might could add some intelligent input on this particular play situation and give some insite into what is and what is not and why, like Dr. Steitz used to do in basketball. Anyway this is just my 2 cents as you guys would say, and I am just a rookie at these posts and always will be since I am just a tballump and my knowlege, unlike yours is limited (maybe I shouldn't have commented at all and just lurked). Seems like several of the umps and moderators here are on top of the game and its rules and have lots of experience and maybe they could contact Chris Jacksa or Rick Darby (I remembered?) for extra insight, but it looks like they are on top of this anyway.

cripes, you expect us to decipher all this?