Quote:
Originally posted by Mike M
Well this play has made it to this board. The thread started on ETeamz and worked its way over to Umpire.org.
The current status of the threads: No one can find a definitive interp about the ability of the offense to retouch home plate after the third out has been recorded. What is missing from your situation would be subsequent appeal by the defense at home for the fourth out.
Certainly absent a proper appeal by the defense, the run scores regardless of the retouch. However, the umpire has a dilemma if F4 throws the ball to F2 after the third out. Then F2 appeals that R2 missed home plate. Does the umpire allow the retouch after the third out or not?
One camp says run scores since the ball is live after third out and the defense can appeal for fourth out. Therefore the offense can correct its mistakes. Others believe the third out ends the offense's ability to do anything.
We await a definitive interp.
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This is confusing me because of the following:
From Jaksa/Roder:
If a runner misses home in passing it, and returns to touch it, the time he is considered to have touched the plate is when he actually does touch it. If he only passes the plate (failing to touch it), the time he "touches or passes" the plate is the time he passes it.
Huh?
Jaksa/Roder follows up with the below example:
R2, two outs. The batter singles to center field. The throw to the plate is relayed to second base and R2 misses home plate just before the batter-runner is tagged out: R2 is a run unless he becomes out on appeal for missing home. R2 is not a run if he returns to touch home after the out.
With reference to 4.09(a) Evans says:
This rule is the best description in the rulebook explaining the "Time Play." Time plays are critically important since the sequence of events determine whether or not a run counts. When a runner crosses the plate at approximately the same time a third out (not a force out) is made on the bases, a time play has occurred. Note the use of the term "crosses the plate" as opposed to "touches the plate." On time play situations, a runner is assumed to have touched the plate legally until a proper appeal for a missed base is sustained. In that event, it may be necessary for the umpire to reverse his previous signal that the run scored.
Isn't it true that only APPEALS can be acknowledged for an advantageous 4th out?
Further - can runners legally correct baserunning errors (i.e. missed bases) after the third out has been recorded? It seems that Jaksa/Roder believes a runner who misses home can go back an touch it even though the third out has been made. That would mean that an attempt to get an advantageous 4th out on that runner would be denied because the runner corrected his error before the appeal.
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I apologize if this has been rehashed on other umpire boards. I do not frequent them all as many of you do and I was unaware that this was discussed ad naseum.
I'll accept the fact that it has been beaten into the ground. If there is no consensus, then I'll accept that an eagerly await something authoritive.
Thanks!