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Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
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Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
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No one is awarding two substitute free throws. A1 never got the chance to attempt his first free throw because the T sounded an inadvertent whistle instead of a delayed deadball whistle for B1's free throw violation. A1 still gets to attempt his first free throw but with the officials showing the delayed deadball signal. If A1's free throw is successful we go on to the second free throw. If A1's first free throw is not successful then he gets a substitute free throw followed by the second free throw. Hence, three to make two.
I do not have my rules books in front of me but the NFHS Casebook play involves a timeout, and the NCAA A.R. deals with this play directly. But the logic applied to both plays is the same. Team B cannot benefit from its free throw violation because of the timeout request by Team A (NFHS Casebook Play) or the inadvertent whistle by the T (NCAA A.R.). [/B]
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Mark,there is nothing in the rulebook or casebook that will support your stance.There is no such thing as a delayed deadball whistle mentioned anywhere that is applicable to this sitch.There is no TO involved.Team B is not benefiting from it's violation because a substitute FT IS awarded for the violation.What would you call on this play if you blew the whistle,and then an A player violated before the FT was taken,possibly because of the inadvertant whistle?Can A(orB) commit a violation during a dead ball on a FT?I will gladly change my mind if you can find something concrete to cite out of the rules to support your stance. [/B][/QUOTE]
The inadvertent before the release of the first free throw attempt kills everything. No ifs, ands, or butts!! The only way that A1 would shoot three free throws is, after the T explained is goof, A1's first free throw, is shot with the officials showing the delayed deadball signal and if A1 misses this free throw, A1 gets a substitute free throw for his first free throw. After the substitute free throw is attempted, A1 then attempts his second free throw.
The phrase 3 to make 2 is just a colorful description of what is happeneing. Chuck E. is probably more correct in using 2 to make 1 as a description.
But in any case, the free throw violation by B1 must be recognized and penalized if A1 misses his first attempt.