[soundedlikeastrike]

I'm feeling likeI'm leaning towards; ruling this tougher than most. Not sure if I am, I've never called the "slight", "gentle" shoulder turn peek from the stretch, maybe, I/we should be. I only see it at the younger ages, say 15 under.

Maybe it's just something we've learned to ignore during these years.
I gotta say I just haven't noticed it much at least til this year.

I know I never did it, while F1, 7 years on the mound, with a year of Div. 1.
Never had an F1 do it while I was a runner, least that I can recall.

Never coached it in 14 years with 13-18 year olds. In fact told em not to once in contact. I always thought it was a balk.

I've been glued to BB on the tube, for a good 20 hours now, college and pro, I haven't seen one pitcher turn his shoulder while in the stretch.
Every "non plodding" baserunner is off the bag, as, or just before the F1 comes in contact. I've had a couple comments like: well it doesn't matter as no good runner is gonna get his lead untl F1 comes set anyway. What the?

Would you allow the same amount of shoulder turn for LH F1 to first?

How bout RH towards 3B?

How about either L or R towards 2nd?

I know I'm thinking like a base runner here, but, an agressive BR getting a threatning lead, so as to dare the throw, should be able too.
Without deception by F1 while he's in contact. (throws are good if I'm on offense, throws can go bad.)

Other balks are called regardless of the F1's hands apart or not. Dropped ball comes to mind.

I'm looking in this old HS case book, I mean old (it doesn't even have one WEB address, anywhere in it!) 1997.

6.1.1g Reads:
PLAY: Bases loaded. Can F1, while on the pitchers plate in the windup position, legally (a) fake a throw to first or (b) in the set position, prior to beginning the stretch, turn a shoulder and glance at the runner?
RULING: No. That would be a balk in a and b.

What is "the set position, prior to beginning the stretch"..?

Sounds like; in contact, and peering in to get a sign?

Has it changed in the FED? And the younger guys are copying the big brothers as some one else suggested?

I've become "the talk" of the local league where this came up orginally, that's okay, I've worked two additonal games there since, and guess what? No or very, very, minimal shoulder turns while in contact.

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