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Originally Posted by SAump
Mr. Whiteshadow - check ruling 2 Playing Terms and Defn(s) Sec. 5 Base Hit, Fair Ball Art. 1 ... A fair ball is a batted ball which: f. while on or over fair territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, their clothing or equipment. Nothing says the equipment must be attached or detached. I suppose if the defense left their equipment lying on the infield, a batted ball striking that equipment would be ruled a fair batted ball if bounding foul before 1B. It would make a travesty of the game to be playing without wearing their gloves. But no more than if #33 (39/40) were to be CORRECT and to rule FOUL. Let them chase that fair batted ball barefoot too. FAIR?
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SAump, that was my original question:
2-5-1-f: A fair ball is a batted ball which while on or over fair territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, their clothing or equipment.
Does clothing/equipment need to be worn by/attached to player/umpire?
If I scroll down to the bottom of the first page in this thread, you answered:
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Originally Posted by SAump
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Do the smilies mean that you were joking or were you serious?
The rule as written seems to me to be ambiguous as to whether the equipment needs to be attached, which is why I asked the question. I scoured the rule book for clarification and tried finding relevant situations in the case book and the only ones I could find were the two Bob and I already pointed out which seem to contradict each other. So I figured that maybe I was missing something (please, no brain jokes here) and that more experienced umpires could point me in the right direction.
CoachJM introduced the concept of "foreign objects". I understand what a foreign object to the ground is and I see how it applies to foul balls because 2-16-1-d specifically mentions foreign objects in the rule. So determining when a ball was foul was never a problem for me. But 2-5-1-f does not say anything about foreign objects, only clothing and equipment.
So to be honest, although the majority of you have convinced me to consider detached equipment (not intentional) as a nothing (treat it like a pebble), I'm still not convinced that I can completely justify that ruling to myself via the rule book and case book. And I don't know if Tim C was just playing Devil's advocate, or having some fun with me, or serious, because I don't know him that well yet, but I know who he is (and since he already outed me in his first post, I might as well tell you that I am a beginning umpire in the PBUA, so over time I'm sure I will get to know him better), and if he was serious with his first post, then that only adds to my indecision.
I understand that detached hats and gloves and helmets and shoes and indicators and catcher's masks and anything else that can fall off of a player or umpire is a very rare event, and the significance of this discussion may be next to nothing. But I hate having that little nagging doubt in the back of my mind that I won't know how to rule on something that most likely will not, but possibly could happen in a game.
So to put this issue to rest (because I really didn't think it was going to create this much discussion), instead of asking a question, I am going to make a statment:
Under 2-5-1-f, it is only ruled a fair ball if the clothing/equipment is attached to/worn by the player/umpire.
If you don't agree, please, go right ahead and prove me wrong. I would really appreciate it.