[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I am a coach, trying to learn all the time.

Congrats. Most of us sincerely wish more coaches would take this approach. I hope you find this forum a valuable resource, and don't be afraid to share a coach's perspective on things.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

If it is incidental contact, than how could it be traveling. If the contact at the point causes the other player to fall than that isn't incidental.

The severity of the contact has nothing to do with whether the contact is incidental or not. From 4-27: "ART. 2 . . . Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe."

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

My player had gained possession of the ball, stopped, and the other player ran into her with her hands striaght up attempting to defend her. The contact caused her to lose balance and fall to her butt.

With that as background we can usefully discuss whether the contact was incidental or not. IMO, as you have described it, this scenario is not incidental contact. But, as I mentioned earlier, that determination has nothing to do with whether your girl got knocked on her can.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

You have to understand, I coach in a middle school level. Refs aren't the best.

Yep. True story. That's where beginning refs go to learn their skills. The real irony is that these games are often so bad and so quirky that they really require a more seasoned official to get them right. But hey, we all have to start somewhere (including players and coaches)

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

Nor are they very knowledgable. Most Times I am showing them the rule book. Oft times when shown their error, they won't admit it.

I can't imagine any scenario where this is a good approach, Coach. How would you react if one of your players pulled out a coaching book during a game and told you that you were running your press wrong? Would you be inclined to say, "Thanks, Billy. I didn't realize I was messing that one up."? Heck no. During the game you've got a role to play and it involves you being the one in charge of your team, not vice versa. You don't want to lose your credibility or authority over your players like that. And you don't really have time to stop and rethink parts of your game right then. You may adjust later based on receiving new information, but in the moment you're going to do what you've been doing. Same story with officials. BTW, some officials would consider that a very serious attempt to show them up.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

All I ever want from Refs is a fair game. Or as fair as you can get with humans invovled. Consistancy! Too many times, our refs allow WWF in the first period than call everything in the 2nd and than get even pickier in the 3rd.

Yep. It's all part of learning to officiate. It ain't always pretty. The up side is that eventually some of them will get it and become better officials. Of course, then they'll move on to higher level games.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

My mindset is that at that level of skill and age, you have to ref them different. Let them play, you may let minor things go you normally wouldn't otherwise, otherwise you would be there all day shooting freethrows. You call the major violations or ones in which it swings the advantage to your team. But I ramble....sorry. I will get off my soapbox now.

While I agree with you in principle, the details are notoriously difficult to agree on. Your idea of let them play may be my idea of sanctioned mugging. Or vice versa. So the reality is that you and your team need to learn to adjust to how the officials are calling the game. I feel your pain about intra-game consistency, but what else can you do?