Gentlemen, I'm glad I sparked such a intense discussion among us referee's. It always good when we start to challenge each others knowledge and most importantly understanding of the rules. Let me respond to you. First of all, Snaqwells says this...
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells
If I ever have a U call back my toss because the players missed it and looked awkward, we're having some unpleasant words at half time.
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Then I say, if I think the toss is bad I have no problems as the U calling a retoss and dare you to say something to me about it in the locker room. Then JR makes my point.
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
From the NFHS OFFICIALS MANUAL- If the toss is poor, any of the officials shall sound the whistle immediately, signal the clock should not start and order a rejump". NCAA uses the exact same mechanic.
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But the point here is this. If the toss is a couple inches (give or take) higher than the jumper highest reach, this is a good toss. I'm not calling that back and here's the reason why.
JR, at this point in his career has separated himself from the player part of the game. He is strictly focus on the rules and rulebook. I, on the other hand still play the game and come from this at a players prospective as well as a referee. I have the interest of both in mind when I consider the rule. JR only considers the word. For example: the rules says
6-3-4 . . . The referee shall then toss the ball upward between the jumpers... The toss shall be to a height greater than either of them can jump so that it will drop between them.
If you toss the ball a few inches higher than either of them can jump. Guess what? There's this thing call "hang time" when you jump. A lot of good athletes can jump up and hang in the air so that if the ball is not toss too high, it will come down while they are still in the air and they will successfully tip it. Hang time people! Remember, Dr.J could jump from the FT line and hang (time) in the air until he dunk the ball. If you throw the ball 2, 3, 4
FEET higher than these guys can jump. There is no way they are going to tip the ball before they return to the floor and this is when I say beep, retoss. A few inches higher, perfect. A few feet higher, no, not in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
I would take you up on that dare. What does the rule book say is "too high"? When are you going to blow the whistle and when will you let it go? We will have that discussion.
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This is, IMHO, a proper question to ask. I believe I answer it above. The book does not say too high, so technically, by the written word, you could throw the ball up to the ceiling and this still be a legal toss as long as it's straight. This is where I come in and say let's be reasonable here.
And finally,
Rule 6.3.7a: Neither jumper shall: Touch the toss ball before it reaches it's highest point.
If we're tossing the ball by rule higher than the player can jump, and by rule, the player should not tough the ball until it's coming back down. Why is 90% of the R tosses not going up high enough? Nobody is following the rule when it comes to the jump ball because 90% of you don't even throw it up high enough. Oh, but you can jump all over me for not knowing that you don't touch the ball until it's coming down. But you say nothing to the 90-99% of you who allow the ball to be touched BEFORE it reaches it highest point. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.
peace.