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Originally Posted by cropduster
The point of dissagreement is head and shoulders past the guard. The way I have understood it, if the offense got his head and shoulders past, it was a block. JAR said that wasn't relevant if the guard had been standing there, he was entitled to his spot. That does sound logical but is that the way it is?
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Barry -- In general, although there are exceptions, I think that useing generalizations is dangerous (how's that for a mixed message
??) In this particular situation, I think you can use the term "who initiated contact". It's not always very helpful, but if the defender is just standing there waving to his mom, been there all day, and the dribbler is leaning enough that his head and shoulders are sort of past, but he makes contact with his hip or leg, I think you can ask, "Who initiated contact?" If the defender leans even a little, then you've got what our rules interpreter calls "new arrangements." But when the defender is really just being a tree, planted firmly and not swaying in the breeze, then you've either got incidental contact or PC.
I've seen this kind of play where the dribbler tries to get around the defender and the defender clearly doesn't move, but the dcribbler trips on the way past. If he loses the ball, I'm sucking whistle. If he gains something, I'll call a PC, but that's rare. Generally, I'm thinking, "A1 caused it, A1 suffers. That seems fair."