Quote:
Originally posted by greymule
If I had to rule on that play you just described, Papa C, I would give the runner home, and then he's out on appeal at 1st. By giving him only 3d, I'm announcing to the defense that he left 1st too soon. Play: R1 on first, long fly to center. R1 goes back to tag up, leaves 1st slightly before the diving catch at the center field wall. I saw him leave early but maybe the defense didn't. He rounds second, and is running to third. Throw to get him at third goes into the stands.
It seems to me that if I give him only third, I'm telling the defense that he left first too soon. I'm saying, "Two from the time of the pitch from the base you had to return to." I have to act as if he tagged up properly and leave it to the defense to appeal.
Now in your example, I admit that the runner did STOP and the defense overthrew 1ST, not 3d, an indication that they knew he hadn't tagged up. But it seems to me that (1) the important thing is that he was not RETURNING, (2) I shouldn't assume that his stop is an announcement that he knows he has to return to first but figures he has no chance, and (3) it doesn't matter which base they overthrow.
I sincerely hope this play never comes up in a game of mine.
I'm amazed at the controversy my question has caused, but at least now I feel that my confusion wasn't due to stupidity.
P.S. From now on, I will use appropriate punctuation in citing books. Thanks.
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Greymule:
Listen to me now. A runner who leaves too soon is NOT like a runner who misses a base.
When a runner leaves too soon, he is off with the pitch. EVERYBODY already knows he left too soon when the fly is caught. That's why he turns around and tries to beat the throw back to the base he left too soon.
The rules say: Give him two bases from the time of the pitch. Now, since he's between second and third, in a FED game after he gets his award, all the defense has to do is appeal that he left first too soon.
Remember, he will go back to touch first, but it's all in vain in FED play, assuming the defense is even halfway attuned to the new appeal rule.
It's a routine play, and surely when some people get to work this morning, they will weigh in to back me up on this award.