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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
It conflicts because you said that there was NO elbow, Camron. You said "taken alone....without prior incident". There was at least one prior elbowing incident that the Lawrence player admitted to though, and the opposing coach alleged that there were more elbows involved also. The kid admitted to an elbow followed by the push. Two distinct and separate acts.
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I saw the elbow/push as one action...made contact with the elbow/forearm and ended the contact by pushing away with the forarm. The action on the rebound appeared to not involve contact at all. There was no other apparrent contact on the video. The elbow/push was all in the same sequence, not seperate infractions.
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
And why can't I turn an act that an opponent retaliates to into a fight btw?  NFHS rule 4-18-2 sureasheck says that I can. Aamof that rule says that is the proper and correct call- "Fighting includes but is not limited to combative acts such as an attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act towards an opponent that causes an opponent to retaliate by fighting". Imo a deliberate push sureasheck could be interpreted as an unsporting act if that deliberate push was immediately followed by a player retaliating by fighting. I'm also not changing any personal foul into a "T" either. With the fighting retaliation, I'm changing an intentional personal foul(the deliberate push without retaliation) into a flagrant personal foul for fighting when there was retaliation. NCAA rule 4-23-3(b) basically says the exact same thing as the FED rule too. |
If it had happened alone, would you have called it a fight? I doubt it....intentional (by your own statement), but not a fight.
If it had happened alone, without retaliation, would you (could you) have called a T? No. By your assertions in prior posts, live ball contact can only be a personal foul, not a technical.
The fighting rule says that unsporting acts can be considered fighting if they lead to a fight. However, unsporting acts are, by definition, non-contact technical fouls. That means that the actions of the elbow/push can not be an unsporting act/foul. Therefore, it can't be fighting under the retaliation clause.
The only way you can peg the elbow/push as fighting is if you consider it a fighting act by itself. Doing so means that any hard foul would become fighting if the fouled player takes offense.
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
If a player swings at another player and misses, and the second player retaliates by swinging and knocking the first kid cold, breaking his nose and jaw at the same time, would you issue different fouls?
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Both get charged with fighting. Attempting to strike a player with a fist is far different than a elbow/push to the torso.
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
We're just gonna have to disagree on this one.
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