[eroe39]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
112448 originally posted the following:

"The original post was refering to a missed shot and rebound, therefore you DO NOT have a reset until the rebounding team gains possession. The situation to which you refer, i.e., the shot clock starting when it is touched inbounds, occurs on throw-in situations. See the rules reference below:

2002 NCAA Rules 2-13-5 found on BR-42
"Start the timing device when a player inbounds legally touches or is touched by the ball on a throw-in or WHEN A TEAM INITIALLY GAINS POSSESSION from a jump ball, an unsuccessfl try for goal or a loose ball."

As far as the original question goes...I would grant the 30-SECOND time out and be prepared to explain to the coach, prior to leaving the floor for the half or during the next extended opportunity (maybe a media time-out) why I didn't have a 10-second violation.

"My count was on 9 coach. When the clock shows 25, there is between 25.9 and 25.0 seconds left on the shot clock. Since he called a time out with 25 still showing and MY COUNT was at 9, I have to honor the time out request."

I'd then let the coach get the last little jab in and walk away."


Crew later posted the following:

"The rule book says you have 10 sec to advance the ball into your frontcourt (not human sec but actual). No one person has a perfect count, that is why the shot clock is more acurate. (This may not be verbatim but you get the picture.) In the original post I stated the clock started properly. Since 10 seconds have elapsed a violation would be correct, though iIsee everyone's logic to say the clock may have ran after the whistle. In that case adding a sec to the game clock and shotclock would be a correct procedure and also save your rear."


While the original posting concerns the shot clock in a men's game, the correct ruling would also apply to the shot clock in a women's game (there is no ten second count in the women's game but five second counts could complicate the shot clock situation), and the game clock situation in both NCAA Men's & Women's and NFHS games.

Crew is incorrect when he states that the ten second count is not a human count but a clock ("actual" is the word that he used) count. NCAA R2-S8-A8(Men), A9(Women), and NFHS R2-S7-A9 state that the officials shall silently and visibly count seconds to administer the throw-in, free throw (high school only), backcourt and closely guarded rules.

Both rules codes are clear that the official's visible count that governs. While Crew is correct when he states that no official has a prefectly timed count, the visible count is the correct count.

112448's posting about how to handle the situation is about as good as an official can handle it. NFHS Casebook Plays 5.10.1B, C, D & E and 5.10.2 can lend some insight into the play that was posted.

I do have a personal observation about calling a ten second violation when a game/shot clock is involved: make sure that at least ten seconds has elapsed on the game/shot clock. It just makes officiating easier.

But more importantly, officiating supervisors do not have the authority to tell officials to use the shot clock to administer the ten second rule. The rules do not allow it and officiating supervisors are wrong to give officials directives that are not in compliance with the rules.

Mark, just wanted to clear something up with you about the shot clock. When the shot clock reads 35 it is on 35 from 35.0 to 34.1. For example, the shot clock does not start on 35.9 every time we get a new shot clock. When the shot clock reads 25 it is on 25 from 25.0 until 24.1. When the shot clock is on 1 it is on 1 from 1.0 to 0.1. When the shot clock reads 0 it is on 0. According to what you stated earlier than if the shot clock is at 0 than it could actually be at 0.9 which is not true because the horn sounds at 0. I used to not be sure about this as well but it was made clear to me my first year in the CBA. This is a tough play crew brought up. If you are sure the timeout was before the shot clock hit 25 I would put 26 on the shot clock and add one to the game clock which I have actually done before. If you don't then the coach, players, and others will not understand how 10 seconds could elapse but no ten second call is made. If you are not sure I would call the ten second violation here. You are totally backed up by the shot clock. Of course, I am assuming as Crew stated, that the shot clock started correctly. Mark, how do you quote just a sentence or two without quoting the entire posting? That's what I wanted to do in this case.