Quote:
Originally posted by BadNewsRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
JR, there is only one that I can think of:
A1 grabs an offensive rebound on the block. B1 was standing between A1 and the basket and facing the basket when the ball went over his head and A1 got the rebound. B1 doesn't react quickly to A1 getting the rebound and still has his back to A1 when A1 makes a power dribble and move to the basket in an attempt to score. A1 sticks his shoulder into the back of B1's torso and knocks him to the floor while scoring a goal.
Obviously the correct call is a player control foul. B1 never had LGP, but he did have a legal position on the floor. He is entitled to that.
Rule Refs to back this:
4-23-1 "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."
and the Simplified and Illustrated diagram on the top of page 27.
Plus there used to be a case play in which B1 falls to the floor in the lane and dribbler A1 trips over him. The ruling stated that it was not a foul on B1 as he was entitled to any spot on the floor even if he was momentarily lying down on it. I can't locate that play right now though.
However, I agree with JR that 99.9% of the time a block/charge decision depends upon LGP of the defender. All of the other examples that wwcfoa43 and refTN give are PC fouls but they are not charging fouls. They are examples of illegal use of hands/arms/feet. What refTN is failing to grasp is that in his examples, the decision is not between a block or a charge, but hinges upon noticing some illegal action that the player with the ball did prior to any block/charge situation taking place. It just happens to be a PC foul because that player had the ball. To prove this remove the ball from the play and have the two players do the same actions. Would you call a charge? No. You would call a push or illegal use of hands/...
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NCAA Rule 4 Section 33 A.R. 23. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his/her back to B1, who is
prone) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and
falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position.
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Just a comment from me on this, because Nevada is probably out doing what Nevada does and isn't available......I don't think that Nevada is allowed out in the sunlight anyway. He's supposed to stay in the crypt.
The reference that Nevada made was an an example where he thought there was a charge call with shoulder-to-torso contact on a player without LGP. The example that you cited does not involve shoulder to torso contact in any way. Apples and oranges iow, and not what we were discussing.