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OK,
Tim:
We talk of this specific issue often:
I always intone:
There are two camps (and always will be) on the issue.
FED takes away the discussion as there is a specific case book play that rules these "type" plays are, indeed, "outs".
Evans and J/R disagree ("surpirse, surprise") on the issue.
Evans has coined the term "gloved ball" to show a clear distinction between the voluntary release issue that established the difference if you use the definition of "a catch."
But consider one more issue:
Steve Mattingly, retired AAA umpire and owner of a baseball umpire school if Arizona, says: "In a professional game, consider trying to sell the 'out' to a manager that is all over your butt and there lies the ball on the ground!!"
So Tim what we have is a school that says: "the instant the base is touched and the ball held securely NO MATTER what happens next it is an 'OUT!'"
We have the other school that contends that secure position includes a "time" after the out is made.
I doubt seriously if we will ever get everyone on the same page and this is where I use my friend Terry's advice:
"Tee, sometimes you just have to umpire!"
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