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You wrote..."How do you know the runner didn't deliberately kick the ball out of F2's glove in the OP? I know that didn't happen because if it did, Dave would have let us know".
Mike,
I know the ball wasn't deliberately kicked out of the catchers mitt ...Had that been the case the call would have been out and we wouldn't have this thread going.
IMO, the intent of the rule is a tag MUST be made with secure control of the ball. In your opinion, and other experenced umpires on the board, the ball must have been considered to have been securely held... yet it ended up on the ground before proof was given. It looks like we have a judgment call of the rules in this case and I would suspect there would be many umpires that disagree with me, as there would be with you. I suspect there would be many catchers that had the call go opposite ways in similar cases, depending on who was umpiring. I'd like to ask Roy Campanella (sp?) or Yogi Berra what the pro baseball umpires call on this play, and if they all call it the same way, or not. As a catcher myself I know first hand from hearing it over and over again from my coaches and my Dad (especially when playing little league and pony league) the need to squeeze the ball so it doesn't fall out of my mitt before I can show the umpire my tag was made with secure control of the ball.
As I said a few time now, the way the play was explained one would have to guess there was control (in the face of a dropped ball) before the runner even finished her slide and the fielder had a chance to show the umpire the ball was firmly held in her mitt.
I feel like I am going in circles so this will be my last comment on this subject to answer your following comment...
You wrote..."Based solely on the wording above, if F3 tags out a runner for out #3 and drops the ball leaving the field, the runner isn't out. Absurd? Absolutely, but I'm basing it solely on what you have quoted. You have either omitted something, or there is an interpretation addressing this issue that you didn't publish".
I don't understand your point here at all. The wording of the rule is clear to me. All that the rule requires is the ball must be firmly held WHEN the tag is being made. The rule on tag-outs says the ball is not considered as having been HELD securely if juggled or dropped after the TOUCHING unless the runner deliberately knocks the ball from the hand of the fielder. After the touching the umpire makes the call based on the facts he sees. If he sees a controled tag he calls out, if not he calls safe. If a tag is made the call must be made at that time, so a fielder dropping the ball while leaving the field is moot. So based solely on what I quoted a girl walking off the field and then dropping the ball means nothing because the play was over the second the umpire judged the fielder had control, or not, at the time of the tag.
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