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Originally posted by Zeke5
I understand what a muff is and I think that B's control of the ball continues to be a muff until he contacts the ground with that control where he has possession of the ball and it then becomes a catch. You cannot have a change of possession on a forward pass without a catch, and therefore, in the first situation, A is still in TEAM possession when A & B jointly catch the ball. A's ball.
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I'm afraid that's not the NF's interpretation.
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What happens when B jumps up to catch the ball and momentarily controls the ball, but before he hits the ground he is hit by A and drops the ball? It is an incomplete pass, not a fumble. B never caught the ball.
In the same fashion, this is why #2 is an incomplete pass.
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Exactly!
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What if in #1 B threw the ball forward, whould you have an illegal forward pass, too? I don't think so. Not unless B threw it after he made contact with the ground in bounds.
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You are correct.
dpomeroy, the ball was never caught, thus not possessed. If he never had possession of it, he can't throw it, pass, or what ever term you won't to use. It's simply a muff because he never possessed the ball. It doesn't matter whether the ball goes backwards or forward. Mr. Webster may call it a pass, but we have to go by the definitions in the rulebook.
Guys, we've beat this play to death on the Mc Griff board. We've examined it over and over again. The consensus is that the NF is correct.
[Edited by BktBallRef on Sep 20th, 2001 at 10:02 PM]