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Old Thu Jun 16, 2005, 06:40am
grantsrc grantsrc is offline
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Re: Re: Duh

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob M.

You could also see the flaw in that philosophy in this play which includes a foul by the defense during a running play: PLAY: On 3rd and 6 from midfield, A22 runs to B's 40 where he fumbles. While the ball is loose, B12 holds A85 at B's 35 to prevent from recovering. A33 recovers at B's 30. RULING: If you applied the "hit 'em where it hurts most" philosophy here, you might be tempted to enforce B's holding foul from B's 30...or at least from B's 35 (the spot of the foul). Both would be incorrect. Since this is a foul by the defense, enforcement is from the basic spot--the end of the run. That, by definition, is the spot where A22 fumbles. Therefore accepting the penalty will give A the ball, 1st and 10 from B's 30. Only by sheer coincidence, declining the penalty would produce the same result.

Bob, I really appreciate all your feedback and insights on this interpretation. I keep going back and forth between the Federation case book, Federation rule book, and your posts. In the example above, you said the basic spot is where the run ends and he fumbles. That would be supported by Fig 4 in 10-6. The part where I get lost is where the rule book says "A loose-ball play is action during... 3.A backward pass, illegal kick or fumble made by A from in or behind the neutral zone prior to a change in team possession. It includes the run(s) which precede such legal or illegal kick, legal forward pass, backward pass or fumble." So according to this, if the fumble occurs behind the neutral zone, the preceding run is still considered part of the loose-ball play, so the basic spot would be the previous spot. A foul by A behind the basic spot would be enforced from the spot of foul?

But, if the fumble occurs beyond the neutral zone (like your example above) all action prior to the fumble are considered a running play? And to throw one more monkey wrench in this, even the fumble is considered part of the running play prior to A or B securing possession since it occurred beyond the neutral zone?

Play: 1st and 10 from A20. A11 drops back to pass. As he is dropping back, B92 grasps A11's facemask on A17, where A11 (a) fumbles the ball and is recovered by A77 at A16, (b) fumbles the ball forward and is recovered by A77 at A22, or (c) is downed at A15.
My ruling: (a) Since the fumble occurred behind the neutral zone, all action is part of the loose ball play. Basic spot is the previous spot. Since the foul by B is behind the basic spot, the enforcement spot would be the basic spot. 1st and 5 from A25. (b) Same as A. The spot of the recovery doesn't matter, even if it is beyond the neutral zone. (c) Since there was no loose-ball, this is a running play. The basic spot is A15, where he is downed. Since the penalty by B occurred beyond the basic spot, the enforcement spot would be where the run ends. Coincidentally, 1st and 10 from A20.

Boy, I sure hope I am starting to sort this out. I agree with your comment about rules knowledge. I guess that is why I won't let the dead horse die. I really want to understand this. Thanks again for helping me (and hopefully others- I don't want to be the lone fool here) out.


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