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Originally posted by BktBallRef
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Originally posted by Camron Rust
It's not available or at their disposal until they can get it into a postion to make use of the ball.
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Do you disagree with the case book which says that when the ball is placed on the floor at the team's disposal, the ball is live? If I grab the ball and place it on the floor or it's sitting on the floor after a goal, it's at the disposal and therefore live, whether anyone is in "a postion to make use of the ball" or not.
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No, I do not disagree. If you have time to get the ball and place it on the floor, the team certainly has had sufficient time to be ready for the throwin. That count doesn't begin until you actually put it on the floor, not when you decide you're going to put it on the floor. Again, the ball sitting there on the floor OOB at a valid throwin location implies that the team could easily pick it up and make the throwin but is not doing so. After seeing that the team is not doing so, the official declares the ball at the disposal/available (live) and starts counting. The situation I keep referring to is when the ball is NOT at a location where it could be thrown in....inbounds...by 5, 10, or 50 feet.
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Originally posted by BktBallRef
I believe that NVRef's contention is that if A1 is close enough to kick the ball, then the ball is "available or at their disposal." I would agree with that.
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What if A1, when he picks up the ball, is under the basket, at the FT line, top of the key, divsion line, opposite FT line? What rule makes one location different than the other? Why would it be availble under the basket but not at the division line? At precisely what spot on the floor does the definition change from available to unavailable?
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Originally posted by BktBallRef
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Again, if it's live once they pick it up. Then the other team is free to intercept a toss to the actual thrower or steal the ball. The player that picks up the ball has also committed a throwin violation by stepping inbounds with a live ball.
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C'mon Camron, you can do better than that. You know that any actions along that lines would be delay of game (10-1-5b, "Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or from being put in play"). Why does you keep posting that? That would be an obvious delay of game. 
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By your interpretation, the ball is already live and in play so they couldn't possibly keep it from being made so. If the ball is live for the throwin and the ball is in the inbounds side of the throwin plane, the defense may freely attack the ball. See CB 7.6.3A-F...several of them backup that point.
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Originally posted by BktBallRef
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I'm not ignoring any language at all. We have no explicit definition in NFHS rules on what available and disposal mean. I'm using basic English definitions. If they can't make a legal throwin from the spot where they pick up the ball, the ball is not available for a throwin. They player has to take it to a spot to make it available for the throwin.
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Sorry but that ain't what the rule book says. I agree that this is the way we all enforce it, unless a team is trying to delay and burn some clock. But that's not what the rule states.
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Why do we enforce it that way then if that is not the rule?
Show me any case that declares the ball live and the throwin started when the ball is promptly picked up. There are NONE because that is not the meaning of the rule.
Consider 6-1-2-c. When is it at the disposal of the free thrower? When you either put it on the line or they catch it inside the semi-circle. It is not at the disposal any other way. You don't make it at the disposal of the thrower by handing/bouncing it to them anywhere else. They must be in the correct location.