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Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
On the "kick", there is nothing to call. I can't think of any violation that can be committed during a dead ball.
On the "fist", it could technically be a violation but I'm not going to call it. That's not the purpose of the rule.
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Camron,
I don't have anything here..I agree that only an OOO would make this call. However, why do you aver that this is a "dead ball" situation? The original post was after a made basket.
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Because the ball is dead between the time it drops through the net until the time the throwin begins. If one player is kicking the ball to the thrower, I doubt the throwin has begun.
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I have no problem with any official who makes a concious decision not to make either of these calls. I asked the original question to get feedback on how most people feel about these little violations. Each individual has to make their own choices on how to manage a game.
However, I do have an issue if an official doesn't make a call for the wrong reason. In this case, I have to disagree with Camron and insist that by rule the ball is live when the player kicks it to his teammate.
RULE 4 -- SECTION 41 THROW-IN, THROWER, DESIGNATED SPOT
ART. 1 . . . The thrower is the player who attempts to make a throw-in.
ART. 2 . . . A throw-in is a method of putting the ball in play from out of bounds.
ART. 3 . . . The throw-in and the throw-in count begin when the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to it.
RULE 4 -- SECTION 4 BALL LOCATION, AT DISPOSAL
ART. 7 . . . A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:
a. Handed to a thrower or free thrower.
b. Caught by a player after it is bounced to him/her.
c. Placed on the floor at the spot.
d. Available to a player after a goal.
Since A1 is kicking the ball to his teammate A2 the ball is obviously available to A1. Thus the ball is at the disposal of a A1.
Further, from 4-41-3 we know that the ball doesn't have to be at the disposal of the thrower, but merely ANY player of the throwing team for the throw-in and throw-in count to begin.
Therefore, the time during which the ball was dead after the goal has passed and the ball is live at the time of the kick.
As an official the only decision is whether or not you are going to call it.
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That's absolutely absurd.
If you're going to do that, you'll be calling a throwin violation every time a player picks up the ball inbounds and tosses the ball to a teammate who is or is heading OOB for the throwin since the first player has stepped inbounds on the throwin.
What if, after the bucket, A1 catches and tosses it to B1 to relay it to A2 who is OOB for the throwin? By your argument, the ball is live when B1 is holding the ball inbounds. B1 should shoot...live ball inbounds!
What if A1 is throwing it to A2 who is OOB for the throwin? If the ball is live, B2 could intercept this pass before it got the A2 (on the inbounds side of the throwin plane) and shoot the ball?
For that matter, A1, being inbounds, could just take off with the ball if he's holding a live ball inbounds...no need for a throwin.
The question not answered is could A1, if A1 picked up the ball at that moment and spot, make a legal throw in? If the answer is no, then the throwin has not begin. The ball is still dead.
I've presented situation after situation that clearly shows that the ball can not become live simply by a player picking up the ball.
Disposal and available mean that the ball is in a position or should be in a position where it could be legally thrown in.