[Daryl H. Long]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

It depends on the timing, imho.

If the "legal sub" was announced by the umpire to the defensive team before the umpire was made aware of the illegal sub, then I think it's too late to penalize. The ILlegal sub is no longer participating, and didn't score, advance or cause a play to be made (so the defensive team doesn't have until teh next pitch to note the infraction).

Also, if the offenisve team noted the infraction before the umpire accepted and announced the change, OR if there was no announcement, then it was too early to penalize.

For rule reference see 3-1-1 and PENALTY.

If the umpire is doing his job when he looks at his card and notices that substitute requested by the coach would result in an illegal substitution he shall not allow it. No penalty.

If the umpire had shoddy record keeping and he announces the substitute as if it is legal, and then it is discovered before the ball is declared live by umpire, then there still is no penalty and the substitution shall be prevented. It makes no difference if the discovery is by defense or offense, or if one of the umpires just happens to remember.

Once the ball is declared alive and THEN discovery of illegal player is made, then the umpire, in the case cited above, shall declre the CR/illegal sub out and he shall be restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game. No pitch has to be made.

Once pitches are made the only way to negate any advance by any runner including the CR/Illegal sub then it must be made before another pitch is thrown. CR/Illegal sub still declared out but you may only negate the advance made other runners that happened during the immediate previous pitch only. Advances during pitches prior to that are legal.

If discovery is made after the CR/Illegal sub has scored AND a pitch has been made to the next batter (either team), the CR/Illegal sub is NOT declared out, his run scores, but he is removed from the game and restricted to the dugout.