Quote:
Originally posted by Bfair
Carl Childress (quoted)
I think what you're forgetting is the offense is not a part of the balk rule. What counts in the OBR is what -- and when -- the pitcher "does his thing." (my underline for emphasis)
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The offense IS part of the balk rule whether you wish to accept it or ignore it. One needs merely to look at the Penalty portion of the rule to realize it. It is the continuing actions of the defense and offense that determine whether a balk will be enforced or ignored. Following your logic, because a pitcher delivers a pitch and is done completing his pitch (defensive portion complete), that would mean an umpire should declare "Time" as you profess? We all agree (hopefully) that this is not done because it also depends upon the continuing action of the offense---which, indeed, is therefore part of the balk rule. All may find it in the rules or NAPBL.
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NAPBL 6.7 (quoted):
"... The ball becomes dead when the umpire calls "Time" following the call of balk, and the call of "Time" is to be made only when play stops." (my emphasis)
NAPBL 6.8 Penalty for Balk (quoted):
"Under Official Rule 8.05, the penalty for a balk shall be: The Ball is dead (when play stops), and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out unless the batter reaches first on an hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.
Note that in cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild to a base or home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk."
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Childress, you wish only to recognize the batter as an operative part of the offense. Please realize that the runner, too, is an opertative part of the offense.
Please note that NAPBL states in both sections that when play stops is when "Time" should be called by the umpire. It does not state to call "Time" in the middle of the play when only the defense has stopped, as professed by Childress (and in direct contradiction to the NAPBL).
Initial play presented by Rich F.:
PLAY: R1, outs irrelevant. R1 breaks for second just as F1 starts a pickoff move to first. Surprised by R1, F1 quickly fakes to first while engaged, but almost immediately turns and throws the ball into center field trying to retire R1 at second base.
SO IN SUMMARY :
---we have a play in progress
---F1 balks (play still in progress)
---F1 turns & throws ball to centerfield (play in progress)
---R1 continues to run (play in progress)
---NAPBL says do not call "Time" until "play stops"
---Childress kills play ? Why??
Now, Childress, what exactly is unclear regarding NAPBL and their statement "when play stops" that you don't understand and therefore must go to JEA to get "authortative opinion" to clarify?
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It's apparent we're going to A2D on this play. On the "dead ball balk" side are Szalapski, Benham, Porter, Willson, Childress, Jenkins, Booth, Evans, and Jaksa/Roder. On the "keep playing" side is Steve. That doesn't mean you're wrong, but it should cause you to do some rethinking. Remember the old saying from Satchel Paige: "If it's you against the world, bet the world."
Perhaps you're pinning too much on how you read the NAPBL. You're quoting it correctly, of course, but you're putting the emphasis in the wrong places. The NAPBL says that time should not be called until the play stops.
I agree!
But there are two plays in Rich's original situation. Play 1 occurs from the time the pitcher balks until he does not continue. (Remember? Rich said "
almost immediately." [my emphasis] The authorities say "continue," which is "immediately.") Play 2 occurs when the pitcher wheels and throws the ball away.
It's that PAUSE (spoken of by all authorities, including me -- grin) that signals the end of one play and the start of the next.
For example: Try this play, which I'm borrowing from dani:
R1 stealing. F1 balks but throws through. R1 tries for third and is thrown out. Now you would say that looks like one play. The pitcher never hesitated, the runner never stopped, and yet....
NAPBL 7.3-4: If the balk is followed by a pickoff throw to a base that is caught [original emphasis] by a fielder, call "Time" the moment the fielder catchers the ball. Then enforce the balk.
So even the NAPBL recognizes that though the
offense may continue running following a balk, there are events that force the umpire to stop play. One is when a catcher cathers a pitch or a fielder catches a throw. The other is when the pitcher does not pitch or throw through.
For example, Evans speaks of a play where there are two out and R1, with a full count on the batter. The pitcher balks but "pitches through anyway." It's a wild pitch. The batter swings and misses. R1 reaches third, but the B-R is thrown out at first. Evans:
Since the batter did something on the play to become a B-R, he must be included in the umpire's thinking in figuring out this play. [Since the B-R did not advance a base, go back and penalize for the balk: R1 to second, B-R returns with a full count.] (A-64)
I believe if you read through all the JEA plays you would begin to see how the professional authorities, including the NAPBL, define "pitching" or "throwing" through.
I hope this has been of help.