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Originally posted by just another ref
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Originally posted by Camron Rust
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Originally posted by just another ref
just because something starts out to be one thing, it can turn out to be something else. If a pass from outside the arc goes in the basket, it is no longer a pass, it is a three point field goal. If you throw a pass and then run and catch it yourself, it is no longer a pass but a dribble, if you had one, or a travel, if you did not.
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This is not at all true.
A pass that goes in from outside the arc is NOT a try. It is simply counted as three points. There are several ways points can be scored in the absence of a try. This is one of them.
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Never said it was a try, I said it was a field goal.5-2-1
...thrown ball....by a player....located behind (the 3point
line) counts three points. Is this not a field goal, even though it was intended as a pass?
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Fair enough...you didn't say try. However, if it goes into the basket, it is a goal and never was a pass. It's just a thrown ball.
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Also, the ball that is thrown and caught by the same player never was a pass. It was a dribble all along, it just takes until the ball is again touched to make the determination. A pass has to be to another player. If it doesn't go to another player, it's not a pass.
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The guy was throwing it to another player, but he wasn't looking, so the first player retrieved it himself. So, as you say, we must wait for the second touch to make a determination and, possibly, a call. My point was that this player's original intention was to make a pass.
Now having said all this, one question is what this player in the situation at hand intends when he rolls the ball on the floor. But, as proven by the above examples, his original intent is not really important but the question is the legality of the second touch after rolling the ball. I
believe that I personally would treat this the same as if the player had thrown a pass and retrieved it himself.
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Like most rules, intent doesn't matter. Most times, a player doesn't intend to foul. Should we not call the foul simply becasue a player didn't intend to make contact.
The only thing we have available, in most cases, is action. What actually occured? Doesn't matter how it happened. This is consistent with the thrown ball that goes in the basket. The intent doesn't matter, only the fact that it went in.
Sometimes, we have to delay a decision in order to determine.
Is it is a pass or dribble? Depends on who touches it next.
Is it a carry or the end of the dribble? Must wait to see if the dribble again.
Is it a travel or not when the pivot foot is lifted? Have to wait to see if the player passes, shoots, or dribbles.