Wed May 05, 2004, 02:40am
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Official Forum Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,003
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Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
just because something starts out to be one thing, it can turn out to be something else. If a pass from outside the arc goes in the basket, it is no longer a pass, it is a three point field goal. If you throw a pass and then run and catch it yourself, it is no longer a pass but a dribble, if you had one, or a travel, if you did not.
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This is not at all true.
A pass that goes in from outside the arc is NOT a try. It is simply counted as three points. There are several ways points can be scored in the absence of a try. This is one of them.
Also, the ball that is thrown and caught by the same player never was a pass. It was a dribble all along, it just takes until the ball is again touched to make the determination. A pass has to be to another player. If it doesn't go to another player, it's not a pass.
Now, to the original case...
At first I tought that the original case couldn't be a travel since, in all but one case (that I could remember), a travel occurs while holding the ball. The one case is when a player throws the ball into the air, moves the pivot foot, and catches the ball before it hits the floor (not talking about a shot or a ball that is thrown off the offensive backboard).
Then I tought it should either be a dribble or an illegal dribble. If it doesn't fit the definition of a legal dribble, it's an illegal dribble. A player who is holding the ball could potentially start a dribble by pushing it to the floor in such a way that their hand continues to make contact with the ball all the way to the floor and back up. It would be difficult and not particularly useful, but it could be done and it would be legal. They could also push it to the floor and keep the hand on top of it in such a way as to prevent it from bouncing back up. Again, not too useful but legal and not even a dribble. (case on a player touching the ball to the floor without letting it go).
Then, I remembered one more case that may help...
Player sitting on the floor while holding the ball. Player puts the ball on the floor, stands up, then picks up the ball. Case book says traveling. With this, there is precedent that rules on moving after putting the ball on the floor in a way that is not a dribble. It is a travel.
In summary, the ball is moved around the floor in 3 ways: passing, dribbling, and shooting. To move with control of the ball, a player has to dribble. This is not a dribble. Traveling.
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Camron,
Great post and I agree completely. BTW the casebook play for the travel is 4.43.5 Sit B in the Ruling.
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