[Andy]

Originally posted by Dakota
This thread may land like a lead balloon and get no responses, but I hope not.

I'd like to have a serious discussion about JO FP IP. ASA rules, including influence by upper levels actual practice, where "upper levels" includes Gold, NCAA, and Team USA.

This is about the only board that has an atmosphere similar to the umpire's room / tent at a tournament. That is, we can have pretty much umpire-to-umpire discussions. Sure, a few coaches / fans do drop by here from time-to-time, but I'd really like to avoid having this becoming a coaching rant as seen recently on eteamz or the NFHS board.

Pitchers push the envelope to see what will and will not be called. That will never change.

With runners on base, the IP call is a fairly high penalty call, so it is proper for the umpire to be sure of the call. Therefore, borderline IP violations should not (IMO) be called.

Agreed

Originally posted by Dakota
A fairly common practice that I don't call is the "foot roll" off the front of the plate. When on the bases, it is fairly easy to see.


The pitcher positions her heel only on the plate (or just touching the front edge), so that when she steps, the ball of her pivot foot is clearly in the dirt a shoe size in front of the plate when she pushes off. Do any of you call this? If not, why not? As I said, I usually don't call this, especially if there is a hole in front of the plate, unless she becomes blatant about it (i.e. more than just tipping the foot). Do you disagree?

Again, I agree. Unless I see an actual step forward with the pivot foot, I won't call this an IP.

Originally posted by Dakota
Second, how about the influence of upper levels on leaping / hopping? Do the "loosy goosy" IP calls in Div 1 and Team USA cause you any hesitation at JO levels? It does give me pause, but I still call them. Now, I don't bother with trying to detect a small leap, but if it is clearly visible, I'll call it. Do you call this any differently in NFHS (where, persumably coaches have greater influence over assignments) than you do in "travel" ball (ASA, etc)? (i.e. are you more reluctant to call IP in NFHS?)

I don't work any college level ball, so the interpretations and philosophies at that level do not influence the way I call my HS and ASA games. I agree with you regarding the small leap and/or replant. If it's borderline, I will more than likely not make that call. I need to see a clear violation. My philosophy is the same for ASA and HS. In my area, HS coaches do not influence our HS assignments.

Originally posted by Dakota
If you don't want to "go public" with how you handle this, I understand, but I am hoping for some open discussion.

Some random thoughts:

In my area, I don't see the IP being a big deal. I just don't see that much that needs to be called. We have a very strong ASA program here, as well as a very good umpire training system. There are also several pitching coaches in the area, that in my opinion, are not teaching illegal pitching methods.

One of the ways that I like to handle this issue is to watch the first few pitches by each pitcher in the first inning. My experience has been that if I make the IP call early, with no runners on base, the pitchers know that I am watching and I don't have any further trouble. Doesn't always work, but then again, IP around here is not that big an issue in the first place.

With all of the different pitching techniques being taught out there, I'm sure there are some that you could put on a slow-motion video, break down frame by frame, and determine yeah...that's illegal. In real life on the diamond, you don't have that luxury and have to make the call or no-call based on what you see in those fractions of a second. Bottom line: I'm not guessing an illegal pitch.