[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

You might want to pull up the thread where we argued what the definition of "hot stove" touching is.

I couldn't find an entire thread with an argument about the "definition" of "hot stove touch" but found a ton of threads, and posts, debating the decade old change from advantage/disadvantage to "automatic" on handchecking fouls.

Some experienced, veteran Forum members say that the decade old change actually wasn't a big change, that is was there, in less clear form, all the time, but that officials were doing a "piss-poor" job of enforcing (relying too heavily on advantage/disadvantage).

Observations from both long-time veteran officials, and from those that played back in the day, say that semi-legal handchecking only became a "thing" twenty, or thirty years ago, and that back forty, or fifty, years ago there was a zero tolerance policy in place, that somehow evolved (as the game of basketball often does) into handchecking becoming more acceptable, thus the need for a change ten years ago re-set back to a zero (almost zero) tolerance.

If I recall correctly, back when I was playing basketball in the late 1960's, early 1970's, a defender placing a hand on a ball handler was strictly verboten.

In my search I found that there was no real closure, or consensus, to the advantage-disadvantage/automatic debate due to a few veteran, experienced, Forum members who really stick to their guns in the face of opposition from many similar veteran, experienced, Forum members. Gotta admire persistence and tenacity, especially with a minority opinion.

This was much to my dismay because anybody who's been on the Forum for any length of time knows how much I appreciate closure or consensus.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

He was just playing defense and trying to measure up. Instead of using a one-hand hot stove touch, he used two hands / multiple touches. Automatic foul, Common every time.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, we refer to the first, only, and short-lived touch of ball handler by a defender as a legal "hot stove touch". Any hand contact beyond that becomes justification to adjudicate a hand check foul.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We had our local board's annual interpretation (new rules) meeting a few nights ago. We were shown several video sequences regarding the new freedom of movement rule ... In a few sequences the defender appeared to be making "normal" hand, and arm, movements as he tried to keep up, and change directions, with the ball handler, trying to maintain his balance without falling down (i.e., when we run, we move our arms), and there were a few, what appeared to be, accidental touches (certainly not deliberate, and not seeming to effect the ball handler's balance, rhythm, speed, quickness, etc.). In all cases we were told to call these fouls. It appears that incidental contact, and advantage/disadvantage, are no longer part of the equation in regard to defending the ball handler.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I have always interpreted "hot stove" as meaning one touch, immediately removed.